Kung Fu and MMA

[Bjjexpertise@be]

You also said that the grappler can also just attack the eys groin etc. But I would say that many of them have not trained that way, unlike the kung fu fighters that train that way. Also there is a great amount of technique
involved when we talk of attacking these areas. It is not just some simple thing a kid can do.You are oversimplifying things.

It's kinda hypocritical since you're oversimplifying grappling.



And as far as your story about where a "large boxer/kickboxer with grappling experience" attacked you, I call BS. I took the liberty of quoting if from one of your posts from Jubaji's links.

I have had people attack me for no reason of soundness. The man that I was speaking of, the large strong fighter, was in a gym hitting a punching bag. I went into the gym and hit another bag. But when I hit the bag I use Kung fu type of movements. He was watching e and came over in somewhat probing attitude to find out what I was doing. When I mentioned Kung Fu and a few other things about what I was doing he seemd to get in a "Oh yea, lets see what you will do if I ..." attitude. he attacked me suddenly without any provacation on my part. And he kept on trying. I know it can be hard for some men when they have put years of training in the fighting and they see that alot of their training wa not so good. I could see the frustration on his face. I do not like to fight, but as the thorn protects the rose from those who would steal its petals, I had no choice here. I was very careful not to seriously hurt him. But again, I was not in a real survival situation. This man had to face reality of his fighting style. It is never easy to have all your ideas changed.

I'm currently in college and I probably see hundreds of douchebags every week but not one of them would do something like that; nobody randomly attacks you like that in a gym.
Lastly, just because they're hitting the punching bag doesn't make them a boxer/kickboxer, just as not everyone who gets into a random stance they make up does kung fu, taichi, etc. Also, if at any time someone tries to grab someone into a clinch for whatever reason (them getting hit, trying to bully someone, etc) does not make them a grappler.

TC, until some of these 'high level masters' start beating even the average grapplers out there regularly, kung fu won't get the respect that you feel it deserves. Again, the grappler can poke/gouge someone in the eyes, punch someone in the throat, pull hair, bite, scratch, pinch and squeeze someone's balls just as easily as the non-grappler can. All of that being equal, the grappler is still the superior grappler that the kung fu guy doesn't have an answer for. If you like kung fu and think it's good, then great. Keep on keepin' on. Personally, I don't really care what anyone practices. I gave up on trying to wake people up and open eyes about fifteen years ago. If someone doesn't want to spend the time on the mat learning real grappling, then that's on them. That's just one less person that I have to worry about. Peace & good luck.

Hello,

You said that there would be no respect unless the kung fu masters started beating up others. I do not agree there. hey already have respect from centuries of development from war and actual combat of many of the styles.

You also said that the grappler can also just attack the eys groin etc. But I would say that many of them have not trained that way, unlike the kung fu fighters that train that way. Also there is a great amount of technique
involved when we talk of attacking these areas. It is not just some simple thing a kid can do.You are oversimplifying things.

The worst man you would ever want to meet in a real fight and try to grapple him would have been one of my instructors. He would immediately have the vital areas attacked and the grappler would be in great shock. I have seen him fight similar. Because, as I have said, there is a different mindset. As I pointed out in this post, I showed other experts in martial arts agreeing with me and even the military is taking interest in this kind of combat real fighting.

I think it can be dangerous to not inform students of the reality of combat survival type fighting. if the students are only used to practicing for tournaments and sport, then they miss much of what MARTIAL ( or warlike) fighting has to offer.

Again, when I talk of such combat techniques etc, I am only refering to the best in the Kung Fu world, the masters and experts who have developed their style. I am not refering to the Kung Fu people who have only had a few years and who give it all up to become kick boxers in combat.

The way that i teach my students to fight is what I call, "form fighting". Every move and technique can flow into the next and the stances are thee ec. It looks just like fighting in forms. The men who origionated the forms did actually fight like that (I believe). They did not just all fight like so many kick boxers today. Kung Fu fighting is a whole different way of thinking and doing combat. Yes, this kind of fighting takes years to master. but this is the kind of Kung Fu person I am talking about

Ghost, hello,

What do you mean by pwned?

[Tom Yum]

Choy Lay Fut challenge matches/sparring (Lacey family). Some of the sparring uses long fist, the later portions look more like muaythai? I think both father and son have scored some good knockouts.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GJVBnV6eGiw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GJVBnV6eGiw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

The younger Lacy has competed in muaythai as well.

[Tom Yum]

Choy Lay Fut sparring drills

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dgWdY7zrCgw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dgWdY7zrCgw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Tom Yum]

San da

Top video: 1980's sanda

Looks just like open style, full-contact karate - allowing sweeps/takedowns.


Second video: Modern San da - more of a focus on shuaijiao. Striking not emphasized as much.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Pynx2tX5pJE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Pynx2tX5pJE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P6yWrdu6Wf8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P6yWrdu6Wf8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[fire cobra]

Yeah choy lee fut looks pretty good. Youve done a lot in your time, great stuff.Do you still retain any of the kung fu knowledge and would you say youd use any of it still in self defense?

Good questions Ghost.

I defo retain the knowledge,i dont think much would come out in a spontaneous self defence situation as ive done so much Muay Thai and a lot of Silat,however if it was a situation where i could plan and choose the tool so to speak then i think some elements would come out given the right scenario.

I like the chinese arts a lot actually,its a shame they lost the combat efficiency they once had through lack of combat.

I intend to delve more into Wing Chun in my later years as i think it has a lot to offer the older MartialArtist.

[Ghost]

Lol.....pwned

[jubaji]

And for the slanderous, gossip and lies that jubjai has been spreading, that is not true. I was never chased off in shame. I spoke the truth as in here. Just read my quotes atthe beginning from the experts and I suggest you not slander or attack with hideous lies any more. But since you have done this the scond time, speak on that all may know your lack of knowledge in this area.

The Dragon's List Kung Fu Community

MMA and KUNG FU - The Dragon's List Kung Fu Community

Share your techniques - The Dragon's List Kung Fu Community

Kung Fu talk - The Dragon's List Kung Fu Community

[Jujujason]

TC, until some of these 'high level masters' start beating even the average grapplers out there regularly, kung fu won't get the respect that you feel it deserves. Again, the grappler can poke/gouge someone in the eyes, punch someone in the throat, pull hair, bite, scratch, pinch and squeeze someone's balls just as easily as the non-grappler can. All of that being equal, the grappler is still the superior grappler that the kung fu guy doesn't have an answer for. If you like kung fu and think it's good, then great. Keep on keepin' on. Personally, I don't really care what anyone practices. I gave up on trying to wake people up and open eyes about fifteen years ago. If someone doesn't want to spend the time on the mat learning real grappling, then that's on them. That's just one less person that I have to worry about. Peace & good luck.

[Ghost]

Yeah choy lee fut looks pretty good. Youve done a lot in your time, great stuff.Do you still retain any of the kung fu knowledge and would you say youd use any of it still in self defense?

I kinda did that when i was younger Ghost,

Its actually how i started Muay Thai,i was into Wing chun and went round the boxing gyms testing my standard,got my ears rang a few times but sharp learned what to do and gave the boxers some problems in that they couldnt understand what i was doing with the trapping.

Later i needed a new challenge so went to the Thai Boxing gym(which i had to travel 2 hours to get to) and tried to do the same,this time i was getting neck kicked and kneed quite a bit! any way i fell in love with Muay Thai,the smell of the oil,the colours in the gym,the music and the technique,that was it!.

Kept up my Wng Chun training but gradually did more and more Muay Thai.

I also did a couple of years Choy Lee Fut,now there is a style with lots of potential to have great fighters.

Sorry this sounds like my life story! just wanted you to know i did pressure test myself and skills in those days,now? oh man im toooo old! it hurts!.

[Ghost]

To all, I will be back later, and I hope to get into it with some here.

By the way i am not talking about standing up fighting, I know that many Kung Fu masters could easily handle themselves that way. I am talking about ground fighting and grappling situations.

Also I am refering to the best in Kung Fu, not a junior who gave up on his form fighting and became a kick boxer. These men or women to me are not even kung fu fighters even if they studied a year or two in kung fu. To fight as a Kung Fu fighter you need to fight in form,

And for the slanderous, gossip and lies that jubjai has been spreading, that is not true. I was never chased off in shame. I spoke the truth as in here. Just read my quotes atthe beginning from the experts and I suggest you not slander or attack with hideous lies any more. But since you have done this the scond time, speak on that all may know your lack of knowledge in this area.

ok mate, post up when you get some time.

To all, I will be back later, and I hope to get into it with some here.

By the way I am not talking about standing up fighting, I know that many Kung Fu masters could easily handle themselves that way. I am talking about ground fighting and grappling situations.

Also I am refering to the best in Kung Fu, not a junior who gave up on his form fighting and became a kick boxer. These men or women to me are not even kung fu fighters even if they studied a year or two in kung fu. To fight as a Kung Fu fighter you need to fight in form,

And for the slanderous, gossip and lies that jubjai has been spreading, that is not true. I was never chased off in shame. I spoke the truth as in here. Just read my quotes at the beginning from the experts and I suggest you not slander or attack with hideous lies any more. But since you have done this the scond time, speak on that all may know your lack of knowledge in this area.

[fire cobra]

Yeah i think these are good points, especially how they train, i think they would end up ditching half the crap and perfecting all the good stuff in ways that isnt being done now due to lack of pressure.

Would be great to see kung fu evolve through pressure testing and see a really effective system based on all their techniques.

Might be something to do there fire cobra? a project for the future. learn kungfu then pressure test it and develop it.

I kinda did that when i was younger Ghost,

Its actually how i started Muay Thai,i was into Wing chun and went round the boxing gyms testing my standard,got my ears rang a few times but sharp learned what to do and gave the boxers some problems in that they couldnt understand what i was doing with the trapping.

Later i needed a new challenge so went to the Thai Boxing gym(which i had to travel 2 hours to get to) and tried to do the same,this time i was getting neck kicked and kneed quite a bit! any way i fell in love with Muay Thai,the smell of the oil,the colours in the gym,the music and the technique,that was it!.

Kept up my Wng Chun training but gradually did more and more Muay Thai.

I also did a couple of years Choy Lee Fut,now there is a style with lots of potential to have great fighters.

Sorry this sounds like my life story! just wanted you to know i did pressure test myself and skills in those days,now? oh man im toooo old! it hurts!.

[jubaji]

This numbskull started the exact same thread on several different forums. In every case he made a fool of himself and was chased off in shame.