Kung Fu and MMA

Tom Yum,

Hello and I agree with the way you think. I have developed for myself the snake style of fighting and mantis and I also favour the tiger style. I use snake for fast deflecting and shifting along with rapid strikes that are hard to counter. I use the mantis when I want to get a hold of someone and lock them up. I use tiger for raking motions and also clawing and locking. Tiger is very circular as well and is very strong for going over and under bridges of the opponent. I also like the close quarter fighting of the tiger. The tiger is good for palm striking as well and power moves that uproot the opponent. That is why I study other fighting styles and grapplers etc. Its good to keep learning and growing.

In the best situation a kung fu man would have opportunity to develope his figthing style against a vast amount of styles. But if the training is well organized, the attacked of other fighting styles can be addressed also. I try to teach my students what to do in case their attacker knows different styles of fighting.

[Tom Yum]

Then you really do not know what you are talking about. You have no idea what a kung fu fight looks like, so your words make no sense at all. If you have never seen a Kung Fu man fight your argument also has no purpose at all except to spake your biases and attack on kung fu.?

I have seen gongfu men fight - some looked gawd awful, keeping their hands down when they should be protecting, kicks lacking power, sometimes telegraphed strikes. However, I've seen on rare occasions gongfu men strike someone from 'out of nowhere' and knock a guy flat on his @ss.

Gongfu's strengths (from my limited opinion): quick-deceptive striking, the ability to flow from one range to another or the ability to flow from one attack to another, destructive infighting

I'm thinking snake, mantis and crane styles are notorious for the above. Can we get elaboration from an animal stylist here? I'd guess internal stylists are all about the above - again from my limited exposure to the internal stylists we've had here (chrisdavis, boar) etc.

Tiger style is more of an external, hard, power-based style - more along the lines of muaythai.

Gongfu's weaknesses (from my limited opinion): lack of realistic training methods, lack of training against other fighting stlyes - so their strengths and weaknesses can't be tested.

There have been forum members who have put these styles to work (maybe not successful in the ring) but in security work.

I can tell you that there are some kung fu fighters that I believe could overcome two MMA fighters in combat. I do not say this to boast or put down others. I just believe this is the case.The fights would last about 15 seconds or so.

Unlikely.

Studying any martial art style only increases your chance of surviving. And if you're up against multiple opponents (especially trained!) your chances are slim.

[jubaji]

Others like jubaji, are just mocking and seem to have no real argument besides that.

You have proven time and again that you merit nothing more than mocking. That's why you keep getting chased off forums like this.

...
I can honestly say I have never seen any fight involving a kung fu fighter. Not once. And I would never rely on my TKD or Aikido to win a fight. I would fall back on BJJ and boxing/Muy Thai.

Then you really do not know what you are talking about. You have no idea what a kung fu fight looks like, so your words make no sense at all. If you have never seen a Kung Fu man fight your argument also has no purpose at all except to spake your biases and attack on kung fu.

I can tell you that there are some kung fu fighters that I believe could overcome two MMA fighters in combat. I do not say this to boast or put down others. I just believe this is the case.The fights would last about 15 seconds or so.

Also, you said that you got a good laugh at my post, can you please explain what you found funny? Can you give me a detailed explaination of what you read and why it was so funny?

kenshiryan,

Yes I agree with you, the techniques I speak of are for combat survival, a kung fu fighter does not have to do those moves unless needed. If I was being attacked by two men with knives I am going to think about using combat survival techniques. And legally I would be within my rights. I have talked with police officers about this and they said I can use whatever is needful in a survival situation. The only issue is that there must be prooft that it was a life and death struggle or a very violent attack.For example I am not going to attack a drunk pushing me on the streets with life and deah techniques.

I think that some I have met in discussions like this have no idea what combat survival techniques are and they may not be aware of many of the kung fu techniques available.

Others like jubaji, are just mocking and seem to have no real argument besides that. They read other post by mockers and actually believe the mockers. I go into a MM forum and pose the question about Kung Fu survival attacks for combat compared to MMA fighting and all hell breaks loose. There is a massive amount of misunderstanding and false reasoning attacks upon a persons ideas beliefs teachings etc. It seems there are many people who can talk and attack with mockery, but I get the impression they do this when all arguments fail.

[KenshiRyan]

Against who? In the yuppy circles I run with, what do I have to worry about? Getting chased down by some banker with madness in his eyes?

You get in a simple fight, injuries like a black eye or fat lip are easy to explain to the cops. Missing eyes are not.

Even if charges are not pressed against you, there will be lawsuits, and you will lose because you thought is was a good idea to use Kung Fu eye -gouging techniques, perfected by shaolin monks centuries ago.

Martial arts like wrestling, boxing, thai boxing or BJJ are excellent for subduing or controlling someone without maiming them for life. it's self defense, practical for 99% of the fights you will get in.

Unless you live on the streets of war torn beirut, or are in prison, or in the middle of a gang fight, fish hooking and eye gouging are not a good idea.

Anything more serious comes up, like a home invasion by professional criminals, I have security alarms, guns and loud dogs. And the police are usually actually able to save you when you call them.

Naive on my part? Possibly, but I just don't see the use for those techniques, at least in the sense that taking a martial art that supposedly specializes in those things is superior to a sport martial art.

Sport martial arts are done against live, realistic partners. But with what old "tiger claw" is using, you can't even really practice eye gouging, therefore in a real situation are you 100% you could use it effectively?

1) Im not talking about a fight, Im talking about a selfdefence situation, where youve got some crazed moron trying to do more than just bash you around a bit.

2)Id personally rather explain why his eyes are missing than have him explain why Im lyeing dead in a gutter

3)Im not really talking about kung fu crap, more just the simple attacks to the groin, eyes, etc etc, that anyone can do (that dont take years to perefect like kung fu teachers would have you think)

4) I never claimed or implied wrestling bjj Mt etc arent good at what they do, I duno why you have brought them up

5) Im not for this Kung fu being superior to everything else because it uses eye gouging etc etc bla bla junk, I dont agree with it as youl see In my past post on this topic.

The whole reason I asked you was I think its rediculous to ridicule attacking those points just because its a bit excessive, Id always keep them as an option.

[KenshiRyan]

These king fu people are funny, what with the fish hooks and eye gouging. Want to go to jail? Then try that shit on the street. It's called attempted murder.

you wouldnt use that to defend yourself?

[jubaji]

Wow, that was actually a good post!

[jubaji]

It was 9 bears.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Because you're an idiot, a poseur, and generally annoying.

Hey jubaji remember that time you fought off 3 bears and her cubs with your wrestling skills?

[jubaji]

Hey, why are you attacking me?

Because you're an idiot, a poseur, and generally annoying.

LOL! This clown is gonna run out of forums to be run off of sooner or later.

Hey, why are you attacking me? you don't actually believe the attacks from the another site do you? Be very very specific in your attacks upon me and lets see if they are warranted. Remember, the majority is not always right.

Just remember the experts agree with me on this topic, as I posted.

I am curious if you can throw out anything other than insults. When truth breaks down people often resort to name calling.

[jubaji]

LOL! This clown is gonna run out of forums to be run off of sooner or later.

And as far as your story about where a "large boxer/kickboxer with grappling experience" attacked you, I call BS. I took the liberty of quoting if from one of your posts from Jubaji's links.

I'm currently in college and I probably see hundreds of douchebags every week but not one of them would do something like that; nobody randomly attacks you like that in a gym.
Lastly, just because they're hitting the punching bag doesn't make them a boxer/kickboxer, just as not everyone who gets into a random stance they make up does kung fu, taichi, etc. Also, if at any time someone tries to grab someone into a clinch for whatever reason (them getting hit, trying to bully someone, etc) does not make them a grappler.

Yes he did do that and people do randomly do things like this, especially when they are proud and arrogant and have something to prove, and when they unwisely look at a Kung Fu man practicing and think that all the flowery fancy movements are useless. I think that is where he was coming from. He may have been under the wrong impression about Kung Fu as so many are. When he saw me I think he was trying to put it off and show me how useless he thought it was. But he was surprised.

. I could relate many stories from life where people just attack others and in pride try to overcome them etc. There was another boxer in a boxing gym that I go to who was very cocky and arrogant, them one day he was showing off with another larger man who did Jujitsu I believe and some wrestling I think. he just grabbed him and slammed him so hard that the boxer was hurt bad. The boxer I believe may have had a concusion. These kinds of things happen all the time.

As far as him just punching the bag. I talked with him about what he had learned before. And I never said he was a grappler.

[Tom Yum]

The worst man you would ever want to meet in a real fight and try to grapple him would have been one of my instructors. He would immediately have the vital areas attacked and the grappler would be in great shock. I have seen him fight similar. Because, as I have said, there is a different mindset. As I pointed out in this post, I showed other experts in martial arts agreeing with me and even the military is taking interest in this kind of combative real fighting.

I think it can be dangerous to not inform students of the reality of combat survival type fighting. if the students are only used to practicing for tournaments and sport, then they miss much of what MARTIAL ( or warlike) fighting has to offer.

Again, when I talk of such combat techniques etc, I am only refering to the best in the Kung Fu world, the masters and experts who have developed their style. I am not refering to the Kung Fu people who have only had a few years and who give it all up to become kick boxers in combat.

The way that i teach my students to fight is what I call, "form fighting". Every move and technique can flow into the next and the stances are thee ec. It looks just like fighting in forms. The men who originated the forms did actually fight like that (I believe). They did not just all fight like so many kick boxers today. Kung Fu fighting is a whole different way of thinking and doing combat. Yes, this kind of fighting takes years to master. but this is the kind of Kung Fu person I am talking about

Do you like Gladiator movies?