Ngo Cho Kun

[Pitbullz]

Ditang Quan if it is what I think it is, I read it only in kung fu reference materials but have never actually see, meet an actual Ditang Quan athlete. But according to its discription it has a lot of tumbing alost like drunken fist.

http://www.shaolinwolf.com/maguideindex/ditangquan.php

Tang lang which is mantis, yes I have heard about this.
Lun Shin Quan, this one I never heard, can you give a short discription of it.

Konghan: yes you saw lots of ditang quan and dog fist in quanzhou last year...or maybe your looking at the ladies in red?

Konghan as an institution has been a recomendations only club since it started in 1937. it is still like this now but a bit less strictly enforced but you still need to know people. i was recomended by a master/friend from another club. training in Konghan has always been great. except now im too busy.

we as NCK people should be happy since we dont have that ugly lineage issue as with other styles like WC etc. thats what the wuzuquan union was all about,established by our master Lokinghui to stop the arguing(specially in the mainland) about lineage. now we are all happy since we dont have that much political stuff to think about.

PS: my best regards to my namesake Richard who is a wuzuquan person from egland. met him last year in quanzhou doing the monk spade.

[millie]

i cant get you out of my head

like its a dream

[konghan]

Since your sifu has been around and teaching kung fu to several students for a long time & his kung fu style does exist and he is respected by his family, friends and neighbors there is no doubt he is genuine.

Traditionally if somebody say something "evil" about your sifu espacially from a fellow martial artist in front of you it is taken as a challenge. It is either you can ignore his insult or accept his challenge in a fair fight.

[47MartialMan]

Interesting

Since your sifu has been around and teaching kung fu to several students for a long time & his kung fu style does exist and he is respected by his family, friends and neighbors there is no doubt he is genuine.
Nicely pointed and true.

Traditionally if somebody say something "evil" about your sifu espacially from a fellow martial artist in front of you it is taken as a challenge. It is either you can ignore his insult or accept his challenge in a fair fight.
Oh yes, the old "glory days" of the late 60's-70's where there were such challenges. Nowadays this cannot be done, esp from someone "hiding" on a forum.

[konghan]

Oh yes, the old "glory days" of the late 60's-70's where there were such challenges. Nowadays this cannot be done, esp from someone "hiding" on a forum.

In that case, ignore him. Just treat it as a cyberspace bugs.

[millie]

my master likes to carve wood

no body no thouight
nothing ness
and everything

[konghan]

its important to balance the art of war with art
a student is like a carving
i not the building thats imporant its removing the bits that are not productive until your left with a shape you can work with and perfect into what you desire a finished product
also to be beared in mind is the fact (and my master is choosy) that the material you carve from is good enough for your needs.
i travelled south to the live 8 consert yesterday and had a great time
every 3 seconds a child dies in africa from poverty
thats my important message for today.
cherry owe off to work i go

80% of Africa's problem can be pinned on the dictators who runs Africa. The Aid concert as much as it is a very worthy cause, only 20% of total aid goes to the poor and the people who really need it the rest goes to the corrupt officials of Africa. If the world really cares then they should focus their attention on the government, make the government of Africa more accountable.

[millie]

i agree ko

ya you go sister

[47MartialMan]

no "good" shaolin schools are known to exist

[Nothingness]

Konghan,

Unfortunately, people in the western world don't see kungfu as people see it in SE Asia. I am sure you are very familiar with the reasons. I'll just list them here for others' references:

1) The differences in training for competition or self-defense. Competition doesn't allow tricky attacks to weak parts of the body. Hence, a competitive advantage is decreased.

2) Many great sifus avoid from teaching publicly. Those good ones who teach publicly still refrain themselves from teaching wholeheartedly since they are often forced by economics reason only to teach. This is not a racial issue. The sifu has every right to examine the characters of the students.

3) Those who teach publicly are not often that great (sorry, but it is true). Worse, there are many crappy fake sifus out there. There is no standardization on the quality of the arts. The old way of reinforcement by challenges doesn't work in the law-protected western world. Of course, you remember our mutual "friend" who purchased his diploma and teaches for an economic reason. I feel pity for his students, but what can I do? USA is a free country.

4) Forum talk is absolutely crappy. Not only we are comparing an apple to an orange, we are comparing an imaginary apple to an imaginary orange. We don't exactly know what the other party's been trained or how good s/he is. What a cool way to make judgment.

Well, I am a bit bored while waiting for my training time. Since our little hangout place is a bit quite, I decided to take a peek here and keep you a company.

[Lau]

Ng Chor is actually a combination of 5 systems of martial arts developed around the 16th Century. It is an off shoot of the Shaolin White Crane system, that is why the full name for the system of Ng Chor which Chee Kim Tong teaches (taught, rather) is called "Ng Chor Pak Hock Siew Lam Kun", literally translated as follows - "Ng Chor" meaning "5 ancestors/masters", "Pak Hock" meaning "White Crane", and "Siew Lam Kun" meaning "Shaolin Martial Art".

Chee passed away quite a disappointed man in that he could not really pass on his skills except to probably less than 3 students as many could not master his skills. His residence still stands along Old Klang Road in Kuala Lumpur, now partly converted to Chinese medical services undertaken by his daughter. His greatest hope to follow his martial arts footsteps was one of his son but unfortunately was killed in a car accident. The rest of his sons are only so-so and never really mastered Ng Chor as Chee would have hoped for. I will say that the best successor to Chee's Ng Chor would be Chan See Meng, Chee's 3rd disciple, currently in Singapore. Chee's head disciple is well known feng sui grandmaster Yap Cheng Hai.

[joedoe]

Ng Chor is actually a combination of 5 systems of martial arts developed around the 16th Century. It is an off shoot of the Shaolin White Crane system, that is why the full name for the system of Ng Chor which Chee Kim Tong teaches (taught, rather) is called "Ng Chor Pak Hock Siew Lam Kun", literally translated as follows - "Ng Chor" meaning "5 ancestors/masters", "Pak Hock" meaning "White Crane", and "Siew Lam Kun" meaning "Shaolin Martial Art".

Chee passed away quite a disappointed man in that he could not really pass on his skills except to probably less than 3 students as many could not master his skills. His residence still stands along Old Klang Road in Kuala Lumpur, now partly converted to Chinese medical services undertaken by his daughter. His greatest hope to follow his martial arts footsteps was one of his son but unfortunately was killed in a car accident. The rest of his sons are only so-so and never really mastered Ng Chor as Chee would have hoped for. I will say that the best successor to Chee's Ng Chor would be Chan See Meng, Chee's 3rd disciple, currently in Singapore. Chee's head disciple is well known feng sui grandmaster Yap Cheng Hai.

I would disagree that GM Chee was unable to pass on his art. There are many of his senior disiples who are very well versed in the art. You have to remember that GM Chee was an extraordinarily talented man, and it would be rare for such a man to find a student worthy of inheriting everything he had to teach. However, there are many who learned enough of his art to be considered exceptional martial artists in their own right.

And I would also disagree that all of GM Chee's sons are only 'so-so'. I personally think it is a bit cheeky to be saying things like that about people that you have probably never met or touched hands with.

[Lau]

I was associated with Chee since 1969. He had moved over to Kuala Lumpur from Dungun few years earlier, and had started his Chee Kim Thong Pugilistic and Health Society located at Old Klang Road. He started branches in Malacca and Ipoh, and would travel to Ipoh once a month personally. Classes were held on Wednesday and Saturday nights and Sunday mornings. When Chee was not able to come, he will usually send his senior students and disciples.

We spent a good part of the first 2 years just on the 1st kata, or set of movements, so to say. It was called "Sam Chien", interestingly enough, the Okinawan Karate also has its "Sam Chien", but I never got to see that to see if similarities exist. Anyway for the "Sam Chien", for those who are interested, it is the first and most important set in Ng Chor.

It comprises of an initial set of movements which is also incorporated in the later 2nd, 3rd kata etc; then it goes into the heart of the "Sam Chien" movement itself. Here the movements looked so simple, but so very difficult to execute properly and efficiently. I really cannot put it in words to describe how the "Sam Chien" should be executed. Yes, you can learn the movements and sequence of the kata within a day or two, but we were training on it for a very long time. I spent a good part of about 3 years on just the "Sam Chien" which is the first kata and the second kata which is very uniquely called "Yee Sup Kuen", translated to mean "Twenty Punches". Yes, all in all, you throw in 20 punches in the second kata in addition to the initial set of movements similar in the first kata. This is also the only kata in which the fist is used both as a defensive and aggressive tool.

I think I will stop here for the time being, but if there are any questions anybody feel like asking about Ng Chor, please feel free and I will try to answer them as honestly as possible, but coming to the comments, Chee sets very high standards. True, he has trained quite a lot of guys who can fight, perform etc. but I know what the old man (that was his nickname) wanted to do. There are various skills that he had wanted to teach, but less than a handful could make the initial grade. Yes, he had some good students and disciples, such as "Old Man Lam" - very preficient in the White Crane technique, especially when he performs the "Pak Hock Sai Sun" meaning "White Crane Washes Body", Yap Cheng Hai - grandmaster of Feng Shui, Cho S now migrated to the Western Hemisphere teaching Ng Chor and San Shou (his sons became national champions), and of course, Chan See Meng. As far as I know, even Old Man Lam was not able to learn one of Chee's finesse techniques in which he will pile up about 8 to 10 tiles and he will direct his energy to break only, say the 4th and the 5th tile while the rest remain unbroken.

[Drunken Munky]

I am no authority on Wuzuquan, but I was under the assumption that:

Firstly, wasn't Wuzuquan, under the Chee Kim Thong Pugilistic Society, developed in the 13th Century not the 16th.

Secondly, I thought the full name (in mandarin) was Nan Shaolin Wuzuquan.

Thirdly, you have given names of various Great Wuzu practitioners, like Shigong Yap Cheng Hai. But, you haven't mentioned Shigong Han Kim Sen, whom is world-renowned as an authority on Wuzuquan.

Also according to www.cheekimthong.com, the White Crane in the Wuzuquan system is Yin Yang Baihequan (Yin Yang White Crane).

[yentao]

Ng Chor is actually a combination of 5 systems of martial arts developed around the 16th Century. It is an off shoot of the Shaolin White Crane system, that is why the full name for the system of Ng Chor which Chee Kim Tong teaches (taught, rather) is called "Ng Chor Pak Hock Siew Lam Kun", literally translated as follows - "Ng Chor" meaning "5 ancestors/masters", "Pak Hock" meaning "White Crane", and "Siew Lam Kun" meaning "Shaolin Martial Art".

Chee passed away quite a disappointed man in that he could not really pass on his skills except to probably less than 3 students as many could not master his skills. His residence still stands along Old Klang Road in Kuala Lumpur, now partly converted to Chinese medical services undertaken by his daughter. His greatest hope to follow his martial arts footsteps was one of his son but unfortunately was killed in a car accident. The rest of his sons are only so-so and never really mastered Ng Chor as Chee would have hoped for. I will say that the best successor to Chee's Ng Chor would be Chan See Meng, Chee's 3rd disciple, currently in Singapore. Chee's head disciple is well known feng sui grandmaster Yap Cheng Hai.

IMO, Mr. Yap Cheng Hai is a good grandmaster most wuzuquan masters preferred him. Maybe it is because his experience with Wuzuquan doesn't only covers with what Mr. Chee has taught him but also what he learned from other wuzuquan masters (before training under Master Chee) and what he has made to better himself.

He has his own technique application not only all absorbed from the master, which i think is the best thing to do. You cannot copy everything from your master because that was his ownand for him, you have to make things work for you which i think the reason why some styles differs from one another even though it has common roots. What your master has to share with you are foundations which are most likely you would past down as the traditional form but some you should make it for yourself by how you going to apply it. You could apply combinations depending on your personal advantage. Even modifying some of what you learned. You got to try exploring by youself.

So it was not proper to say which is fake or bogus or so-so among this practitioners.

BTW,I'm not saying which is right or wrong, just my opinion.