Kali Tudo (tm) in action

[Crafty Dog]

I'd like to begin by restating that I am not claiming to be the only person to have ever done this opposite foot-hand thing.

That said, please forgive me for quibbling but I am still not in agreement that kang york nai/nek is the same thing. Yes the rear foot goes to the essentially the same place as the first step of the Zirconia, but as you yourself note it is a two step process. Step, then kick/hit. In the first motion of the Zirconia, the step and the hit are simultaneous. The importance of the difference between the two is that this then biomechanically sets up an angular driving crash on what we call the T-bone line starting on the second motion, but that did not arise here.

[Ghost]

step and hit or step then hit is the same thing man, its a matter of timing and rhythm.
you can only step and it if the shot is there, its the same move with different timing.
you cant seperate stuff like that its too anal.

[Crafty Dog]

Well then, we disagree and that's OK.

IMHO Rua's punch would not have arrived if he had stepped and then thrown.

Yes?

To step then throw simply makes this a rear hand (overhand/cross/hook/whatever). To step and throw at the same time in my experience requires training it specifically that way. Applied in this manner the options for continuing the attack with triangles and triplets are quite aggressive. In musical terms, MT tends to 4/4 and Kali tends to triplets (6/8). Words tend to fail on something like this, it needs to be experienced.



Last word yours.

[fire cobra]

I'd like to begin by restating that I am not claiming to be the only person to have ever done this opposite foot-hand thing.

That said, please forgive me for quibbling but I am still not in agreement that kang york nai/nek is the same thing. Yes the rear foot goes to the essentially the same place as the first step of the Zirconia, but as you yourself note it is a two step process. Step, then kick/hit. In the first motion of the Zirconia, the step and the hit are simultaneous. The importance of the difference between the two is that this then biomechanically sets up an angular driving crash on what we call the T-bone line starting on the second motion, but that did not arise here.

My Muay Thai teacher(and Im sure others) taught different timings on this step,his main way was to punch/step not step punch,he was very small and light(45kg) and had 32 kos in a row against opponents 10/15 kgs heavier,so no denying this way of striking can be effective,however it is not to be overplayed,a good opponent or a good corner would pick up on it and the counters are simple.

Thanks for stating you guys in Kali Tudo are not claiming the punch as your own.

[Ghost]

these discussions are intensely irritating for me, this is a regular strike, i hate it when its then blown out of proportion and RENAMED and claimed to be something else.

guys you are showing us a technique which is decades old. deal with it

[fire cobra]

these discussions are intensely irritating for me, this is a regular strike, i hate it when its then blown out of proportion and RENAMED and claimed to be something else.

guys you are showing us a technique which is decades old. deal with it

LOL say it as it is Ghost,straight to the heart of the matter.

[Ghost]

LOL say it as it is Ghost,straight to the heart of the matter.

its just how i feel mate lol

[fire cobra]

its just how i feel mate lol

Yeah I understand that one bro.

[TTEscrima]

0 beat vs. quarter beat or half beat or full beat. Big difference.

Big difference indeed.

[Gongoozler]

In these moments he is the turd and you are the smell. Wherever he goes, there you are!" (c)

Nice line.
I had to watch the clip twice to catch it but whether it is an old concept or not, you've got to love good footwork.

[Tant01]

Nice line.
I had to watch the clip twice to catch it but whether it is an old concept or not, you've got to love good footwork.

Agreed....

I tend to focus on the platform but it looks like he hit his target...

[Ghost]

its not a big enough difference to warrant its own name.
just cos you hit on the half beat doesnt make it a new move does it.
hitting on a half or quater beat etc is a timing issue, in boxing we dont differenciate between the move in terms of name, its just trying to make things seem more advanced than they are.

0 beat vs. quarter beat or half beat or full beat. Big difference.

[Ghost]

thats fine and i understand your point but the problem occurs in the this case when its claimed to be the invention of and named by X.
as if attaching a name to it means you create and own it.

in this instance the timing in both variations are standard and generic across a few systems and are not in that way namable in a way that implies or even directly claims ownership such as
THE ZIRCONIA
which is a highly commercial naming. simply calling it something in line with other names for moves would be acceptable and obviously not pretending that they created or it comes from just that system

[Ghost]

Splitting techniques up and renaming based on their timing is daft when the technique is the same.
We dont do it for anything else, do we rename a jab depending if we step in on the jab and then punch or punch and land the foot at the same time no. Fact is we dont do this generally at all, so why do it now? and especially for something which relatively simple.

Can I rename the step and then punch jab as the Ghost Punch please and post a video of someone doing it to show how effective it is.

I know what you are saying Garland, and im all for bringing people in, but im also not going to stand by and watch just cos a name turns up.
I dont see any need to just move out of the way cos someone with a name turns up.
Its my opinion and im sticking to it like glue, sorry.
But i will leave posting about it for now and make no further comments on the matter for the sake of peace.

[mellow]

The technique may be the same but depending on the situation the timing may make the difference between the technique being effective and ineffective. It may seem like splitting hairs to you but when teaching and training someone (especially someone with no experience) it is oftentimes neccessary to make these distinctions. Naming things is a time saving tool when training also.