Karate Useless?

[Nips]

[jubaji]

Well, that's terrific...

[jubaji]

Since my post explains alot, this thread should be closed so nobody can flam or argue about inferior or superior martial arts.

Oh, is that how it works?

[wado_kai]

to say any martial art is useless is arrogant and ignorant.... ithe only thing that is useless is the person who wud say this(if understand martial arts you understand this statement)! try opening the mind a little and seeing whats really within the martial arts!

[jeff5]

I'll also say that most "tradional" martial arts only have traditions that go back 50-70 years. Lets take Karate for example because that's what this thread was about. I've done a lot of reading and research, and I'm convinced that in the old days on Okinawa those guys trained HARD. What we would call aliveness, sparring, training against a resisting opponent etc., was all in there. As well as hitting...things. Today we hit focus mits and bags. Yesterday they hit makiwara, and a ton of other training equipment. They actually had quite a few training tools, so it wasn't all punching in the air. (I'd argue most of it wasn't) They also did a ton of body conditioning. Those guys were tough cookies, make no doubt about it.

The problem is that when this stuff got imported to Japan and then subsequently Korea, most of that was taking out. The makiwara for example. Alot of the hard training methods that trained your hands, wrists and body were also removed. I'm sure a lot of the full or very hard contact drills and sparring were removed as well. The fact is we have very little information on how those guys in the old days trained because it was secret, and a lot of the records were destroyed in the Battle of Okinawan in 1945. (many of the people who had the knowledge were killed too) Most of what we do have though, indicates that, traditionally, they trained much much harder than what we would consider "traditional" martial arts training today.

The reason that it was removed is that Karate wasn't imported to Japan to be a hardcore type self defense art. It was imported to become a physical fitness program, mainly aimed at young boys making them physically ready for the Japanese military. And its through Japan and Korea that Karate (and TKD etc.), have become most widely known.

Again, I'm sorry to generalize, but what is widely taught today is the watered down, physical education, children's Karate. There are definately exceptions, but you have to look fairly hard to find them.

[jeff5]

Not all schools or instructors are bad. You can find a tradtional Karate school that trains hard, trains against resisting opponents, shows realistic (not basic punch and kick) applications of kata, and get a good grounding in striking type of self defense. (and grappling too if they're smart) But I guess what I'm saying is be careful, most Karate schools aren't like that.

There are some guys who are doing great things with Kata and Karate and trying to make it a lot more combative. One guy is Ian Abernathy. Check out his site. His Applied Karate and Kata Based Sparring is especially good.

http://www.iainabernethy.com/

[Crimson Khan]

tom yum
or any one else that can answer me

whats yellow bamboo?

[aku aku]

I think part of any style's effectivness will come down to how you are trained to apply your style on non-martial artist or street fighters.

I agree completely. If you want to make your kung fu or Aikido or whatever work against a street fighter or a boxer it's best to train with a street fighter or a boxer and figure out how to make it work. If a technique doesn't work it's usually not because the technique is flawed, it's usually because the person doing it is lacking certain attributes that are needed such as: timing, distancing, reactions, line familiarity, etc. Simply knowing a technique isn't enough.

This won't be the case with most street fighters. Their style will be more wild and loose than what you'll find with your dojo sparring partners.

I think a street fighter that learns martial arts will be one of your tougher opponents. Just because a desk jockey or a lawyer or someone goes to karate class after work doesn't necessarily make them a fighter but street fighters are fighters to begin with and if you give them some training they will only be more effective.

[Tom Yum]

im not gona comment on karate
but to people who say martial arts arnt for fighting...well what exactly were they designed for then? creating wind? no, martial arts (i'll try not to be too general because i dont know every martial art) were designed for combat
i cant say every martial art is, but the words martial arts means fighting arts
its not marital arts ok?

Two words: Yellow Bamboo.

muay thai and many chinese martial arts were created specificaly for fighting not street fighting but wars/battles capoera (i kno i cant spell it) would have to be the only exception i can think of
but as far as i know it was first created as a fighting system also

There's some truth to that.

[Crimson Khan]

im not gona comment on karate
but to people who say martial arts arnt for fighting...well what exactly were they designed for then? creating wind?
no, martial arts (i'll try not to be too general because i dont know every martial art) were designed for combat
i cant say every martial art is, but the words martial arts means fighting arts
its not marital arts ok?
muay thai and many chinese martial arts were created specificaly for fighting
not street fighting but wars/battles
capoera (i kno i cant spell it) would have to be the only exception i can think of
but as far as i know it was first created as a fighting system also

[thesnake]

This won't be the case with most street fighters. Their style will be more wild and loose than what you'll find with your dojo sparring partners. So I think schools should have students strike each other in the way most street fighters would so that the students will not be overwhelmed by how untrained fighters will attack you.

i agree but also some style can be completly ineffective against certain attacks used in street fighting

[Motion]

I think part of any style's effectivness will come down to how you are trained to apply your style on non-martial artist or street fighters.

I think too many martial artist get to used to fighting or sparring with other martial artist in their dojos. In the dojo everyone is going to be focusing on using correct punching and kicking technique. This won't be the case with most street fighters. Their style will be more wild and loose than what you'll find with your dojo sparring partners. So I think schools should have students strike each other in the way most street fighters would so that the students will not be overwhelmed by how untrained fighters will attack you.

[aku aku]

I can't figure out why so many people are against it for defense. Can anyone explain this to me?

Karate, like anything else, works fine if it's trained correctly. The problem is that it's hard to find a school that does that. Most of the classes I've seen weren't exactly turning out a bunch of fighters and it wasn't any fault of the styles that were practiced.

[sephiroth05]

I practice Karate. The Eugue Ryu Style of Karate. It is very battle oriented(atleast where I train)and we have full contact sparring every class. it is very fun. I know for a fact that Karate can be very effective.

It's not so much the style that may or may not be useless, because, like others have stated, all styles were developed for self-defense. It is my belief that it all comes down to A. the instructor, and B. the student. You only get out of (any style) that which you put into it, and you must have an instructor who is competant. I teach Japanese Goju-Ryu and while it isn't as popular as a lot of styles it still serves the same purpose, that is self-defense. Basically it all amounts to how hard you are willing to work at whatever style it happens to be that you choose, and how much time you are willing to invest. I know a guy who takes TKD, while I have never been a big fan of that style, because of the outdated kicks they use, I have seen this guy fight and there was nothing useless about any of the moves he used.

[white devil]

[QUOTE][QUOTE]

sparring for three hours,either youre taking lots of breaks here and there..or either you have radio-active stamina.
Quote:
Originally Posted by white devil


When it is something you love to do then you get lost in it, and time just flies by.

you quoted the wrong person,im not the one who wrote that...pay more attention dude and dont quote me for things i never said.