Bruce Lee: The first great Mixed Martial Artist?

[Thai Bri]

But we ae not splitting hairs. He did not produce that much, as the JKD world is in as much of a mess as most other arts.

And he may have introduced the martial arts to the masses, but look at what happened then? Millions wanted to be foot waving supermen, and millions "trained" them to be so. He introduced pretend martial arts to the masses. Most members of the public didn't learn anything about real fighting, only movie figting.

The average martial artist of today is a far LESS effective fighter than the average martial artists before Bruce Lee - theres just more of them. Thanks God the Gracies brought a little reality to the mainstream back in the 90s.

But forget the mainstream for a moment. Fairbairn did more than mixing boxing with Ju Jitsu. He'd studied the fighting arts also. He produced a system that worked and will work today. It s a sysem that can be learned in days, not years, and can help you defend yourself from lesson 1. It kept people alive in a real war, what real war has Bruce's methods proven itself in? None. Fairbairns methods live on today, and he didn't happen to become a film star that was fashionable 30 years ago.

If Bruce Lee hadn't managed to make it in the film world his methods would largely be ignored today. He was a great martial artists and a dedicated man. But he was not a superman and, to be honest, I reckon that the QUALITY of fighting arts in the world today is adversely affected by his cinematic silliness.

[atlas1212]

Bruce Lee cannot be held responsible for people training like crap. At least he brought the topic of self-defense to the forefront. He certainly can't be held responsible for abuse after his death.

JKD is a mess. But more important are his concepts than his techniques.

As far as real war...I don't want to get into this topic but it's much discussed and that is how well did Fairbairns system work in war? There are no stats on real combat hand to hand and it's really up in the air as to how effective it was. Remember, the Koreans used Taekwondo during the Korean war and other conflicts and they consider IT to be highly combat effective. So go figure.

We agree on one thing, he was NOT superman. But I think he deserves a great deal of credit. His movies were silly but in all fairness, his Hong Kong films were acted in the Cantonese Opera tradition. But at the time, that was as close to a "realistic" movie as Hong Kong had ever seen. And even Enter the Dragon was done on a budget that was equivalent to a TV pilot at the time. So it's not too fair to judge him on that. I like his movies though.

I haved done BJJ for three years. I love it. And the Gracies opened up a MUCH neglected area of combat. But they hardly had all the answers. But more power to them, they deserve all the respect and credit they get.

[Thai Bri]

I don't think we're that far from each other. You just rate Brucey a little more than I do. Hey! This is free speech! You have the rght to be wrong!

[atlas1212]

lol... yeah yeah.

[kengar]

the Koreans used Taekwondo during the Korean war and other conflicts and they consider IT to be highly combat effective.

The Koreans training was somewhere between fierce and brutal. Their training was preparation for war, not a hobby. Big difference from what you see now and it goes back to how you train.

Actually, I have old photo's of Koreans training. Personal stories of people who had trained in Korea, pre 90's, the training was rugid. These were the schools off post.

[gungfuhero]

JKD is a mess because of politics and greed. There are many quality instructors out there (i.e. Dan Inosanto, Ted Wong, Tim Tackett, etc.) but there are also many who try to simply cash in on Bruce Lee's name and try to promote themselves unscrupulously.

In terms of mixed martial arts, Bruce Lee might have been the first in the modern era in America, but cross training is nothing new. The greeks' pancratium required the athletes to be well rounded, Samurai had to learn a plethora of skills both armed and unarmed, etc. I think what made Bruce Lee truly unique was his philosophy of formlessness and transcending technique. That's the difference I think between mma and jkd. Someone who trains muay thai, wrestling and jiujitsu may simply express muay thai, wrestling and jiujitsu. A JKD man has no set technique (tools and principles to build off of but not unbreakable rules). It's subtle and irrelevant to most martial artists, but it makes a big difference.

[Thai Bri]

It does. The average Thai Boxer or Wrestler can fight beter.

[atlas1212]

There is a lot to be said for fighting full contact. You could take two untrained people, give them gloves and let them go at it for a few months and they'd be better than most martial artists. 99% of fighting is the aggression, killer instinct and getting over the fear of getting hit.

[atlas1212]

Thai Bri, do you have a video review page?

[Thai Bri]

A what what??

[atlas1212]

Thai Bri Reviews? Is that a website where you review videos?

[Thai Bri]

No mate. I just post a few here and there, though a guy did put some together at Martial Direct under the heading of "The English Pub"(I don't have the web address).

[gungfuhero]

I've fought thai boxers and wrestlers. Your statement is nothing more than rhetoric. It amazes me that so many people who diss on Jeet kune do spend so much time on message boards about Jeet Kune Do.

[atlas1212]

I agree, gungfu.

While I do feel that many martial artists are pretenders. I have known boxers and wrestlers in highschool whose asses I could kick up and down. It's easy to say "wrestler" and think Mark Coleman. Or "Boxer" and think Mike Tyson. But in reality, there are just as many shitty wrestler or boxers as there anything else.

[Thai Bri]

Thats not true. Boxers and Wreslters train hard. They are super fit, used to hard contact and have a base of prove, effective techniques that they have used against resisting opponents many times.

Most TMAs cannot boas anything like that and, regretably, an increasing number of JKD schools play at dead drills and crap like that.

There is good JKD out there, but the charlatans are increasing.