Bruce Lee: The first great Mixed Martial Artist?

[atlas1212]

Look, I've been to a LOT of boxing gyms. I've also trained with a lot of wrestlers at BJJ. Boxers can suck. MOST boxers don't have KO power and can't throw a street punch without breaking their hand. They are not prepared for groin kicks, clinching, grappling. They are not scary in a fight unless they are damn good and posses a KO punch. Wrestlers are perhaps the most overrated "combat atheletes" out there. We only see the best of the best in MMA. And even those guys have to cross train. They are NOT in good endurance shape (ie Mark Kerr, Kevin Randleman, Mark Coleman). They have short burst endurance. Have you watched a wrestling match? The ref stops the action constantly and there are always stops in the action. Most wrestlers don't take people down with stunning double leg takedowns, they grab an ankle and both fall to the floor clumsily with no one scoring a point.

Elite atheletes in both of these sports can be great fighters. And yes, in general Boxers and Wrestlers train harder than most TMA's. BUT, TRUST ME when I say that not all boxers or wrestlers are fighters, or people to be scared of if you train in a well rounded martial art.

If we are going to look purely at the art, and assume that we are talking about the best in each discipline, than Martial Artists are better than any sport competitor hands down in a street situation. The reason is, Sports are based on size. Of course Mark Coleman will win a lot of streetfights, because he's huge. But a lot of people train in martial arts because they want to be able to beat someone bigger than them or defend themselves when in impossible situation. If you are 115 pounds, you could be a gold medal wrestler. But I'll knock your ass out in a streetfight, guaranteed. Same goes for a Boxer.

[Thai Bri]

You've been in some pretty cack clubs.

Of course, merely belonging to a wrestling or boxing club means jack. But any of them with medium ability is a formidable fighter.

[atlas1212]

I just don't think either on it's own is good for self-defense. They are sports and 1 dimensional. They do make good bases though and when combined with other things are pretty good pieces to the puzzle. But on their own. Blah. Would you put your 110 pound wife in Boxing or Wrestling for self-defense? Probably not. You'd probably rather her carry a knife, mace etc. and knock some groin strikes and eye strikes to be able to escape.

[Thai Bri]

If I only put 110lbs of my wife into Boxing, what am I going to do with the rest of her?

[atlas1212]

More cushin for the pushin.

[Thai Bri]

Correct!!!!!!!

[gungfuhero]

A good JKD school will train athletically like a good boxing gym. There will be other dimensions that boxing doesn't have, but nothing should be lost. I used my JKD when I trained in a boxing gym and it worked. It is the emphasis on conditioning and sparring that combative sports have that brings out the skill in JKD.

[Chilly Dog]

vale tudo was in brazil before lee was even a glint in the milkmans eye. also, the gracies were by far the first to call people out on their arts and had an open door challenge. bruce lee fought nobody of note.

You should check your facts on this. He may have fought no one that YOU know, but things weren't organized then like now. Several witnesses, including some who were critical of him because they thought he was a "bully," have said that he was challenged all the time in Hong Kong, even as a star. In fact, a documentary I saw last year said that these challenges became a concern for his movie producers because of their frequency. The witnesses said that Bruce usually accepted them over his producers' objections, faced some very competent fighters (even on the set), and seemed to have the ability to take his fighting to a level that his challengers simply couldn't match.

The story I found most interesting was one told, I believe by George Plimpton, about a time Bruce was challenged by one of his stunt men. Recalling the fight, Plimpton described Bruce's opponent as "a very good fighter, who appeared to be trying to seriously injure Lee." Plimpton said in response to this, Bruce got angry, "opened up on him," and ended the fight in short order. But he didn't fire him!

Now that's a man after my own heart. Beat your a$$, but let you keep your job!

[tigrtclaw]

A true renaissance man, Bruce Lee was a talented artist, poet, philosopher, writer and actor, apart from being a formidable fighter. Bruce Lee can be considered a prophet in some ways. He combined boxing punches, grappling, low and high kicks in a unique style that was criticised vastly by most traditional martial artists at the time. Today all mixed martial artists are training in a similar way. The difference is that he was brilliant enough to do so more than 35 years ago. If you don’t believe me, watch the opening scene of “Enter the Dragon”. That was a true free fight event Back in Lee’s era, no training equipment was available. He had to invent it. His focus gloves and his fighting gloves are very similar to the ones that are used in MMA training today. If you see some techniques in his books (and his films), you will find out that his style can still be used in a ring effectively. The techniques used in his movies are a bit flashier but full of martial arts wisdom. Guess what? He finished most of his opponents with grappling. In "Way of the Dragon " he finishes Chuck Norris with a neck break. In "Game of Death" he beat Kareem Abdul-Jabbar with a headlock. In “The Big Boss” the final fight ends with a mount.
Bruce always seemed so far ahead of his era. The techniques that are used today in JKD schools are (in my opinion, and I don't mean it as an insult) too influenced by Wing Tsun, Kali and Fillipino martial arts. I mean, I haven't seen a JKD guy that can really kick. Come on guys, Bruce was a great kicker.

[mfern31]

Hype!

All this " I knew A guy who knew a guy who said this an that about Bruce Lee and the people he fought", Is a bunch of crap! Listen, Back then we had the power of video and the fact is some how no one, not the Press or the MA communities Bruces friends nor Buce himself thought, Hey maybe we should document some of Bruces many fights on video so we can show what amazing fighting ability Bruce has. I find it hard to believe that there is not one piece of evidence. You know why? Because its all BS! You want your wife to defend herself buy her some mase or a stun gun and have her atend a couple Sherrifs self defence for woman coarses. You want to train in some thing cut and dry and that works ,here it is, proven over and over in the Ring, Octagon, street whatever, Muay Thai, Boxing, and BJJ, and yes some how we managed to get these arts on film being used EFFECTIVELY! Bottom line I hope your ready for cold hard truth. You come accross a guy who's got good training in these arts you can safely assume he's got some ring time, wether it be competition or sparring , this is a guy that likes to put himself into combative situations and knows how to deliver punishment and take it aswell, you come accros this guy and you'd better have something more than a Straight blast and some perry movements or some BS kali joint lock. Thai Bri knows what Im talking about.

[sherwinc]

I have only read some of the techniques of JKD as created by the late great MA, Bruce Lee, and I have a question concerning his creation of JKD. Was this style the first like it of it's kind(Mixed Martial Arts)? He devised it some 30 to almost 40 years ago of studying different MA's to acquire their best techniques. I know that with the advent of UFC and other MMA competitions in the 1990's that MMA styles such as the Militich Fighting Systems, Thugjitsu(used by Yves Edwards), and Ruas' Vale Tudo have come into the equation, but was JKD a forerunner to the MMA movement?, or was it just a style that Bruce developed, in which other styles decades later mimicked without taking it into direct consideration that someone else had already done it?

it is extremely Wrong.....

it is a very wrong to say that Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do is a type of Mix Martial Arts......

why???????

cause you could not even hit Bruce Lee even just once....... and his Jeet Kune Do will hit you often......

while Mix Martial Arts are using their own head and chest to block opponents punches and kicks........

Note:
Using your own Chest and your own Face or head to block opponents attack is a very far to compare Bruce Lee's Methods of fighting...... Mix Martial Arts is a Human Dummy and Bruce doesnt like that......

Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do is more like a Modified WingChun........

Hope you get it........

the reason why all of the type of martial arts that comming out of Bruce's mouth on all of his films and documentary CD's are all KungFu.......

[gungfuhero]

This is ridiculous. Boxing, Muay Thai and BJJ all have a lot to offer. JKD has a lot to offer. All the above are also nothing more than a set of criteria for what to do in a highly chaotic situation. By their very nature, boxing, muay thai and BJJ are seen in practice more because of their value on competing in open venues. JKD is typically more of a low key art; however, many competent JKD stylists have competed and won. Prior to the importation of BJJ into the mainstream american martial arts scene, one could make the same argument that it's no good. That would be a serious error though with the luxury of hindsight. JKD is still very much a maturing art, and a clear understanding of it is simply not available to the mainstream martial arts scene. Due to politics, greed and the historicity of it all, there is no consensus on an accurate representation of JKD that is subscribed to by the martial arts world.

In the here and now though, I practice JKD because it has been instrumental in my development and has served me well. The theories are sound and have worked for me in practice.

[mfern31]

Look, I'm talking about Bruce Lee and his fights. Everybody sais he was fast,strong, and when ever chalenged he won with very litle effort. Everyone talks about his many fights and chalenges. Well, I want to see them ,for my self. Look pal, I dont go on faith, I want to see hard evidence. When the UFC first came out it was a real fight only without eye gouging,biting , hitting the balls and there was three things that worked, JKD was not one of them. The concept of JKD is good in the sence that it teaches you to be versityle and learn different styles, exept the only styles that work are the three I named. It's ok ,people never want to admit it because their under some dillusion that their gonna dispose of their enemy like Kane from kung fu or Steven Seagal or one of those guys. Show me! Show Me! SHOW ME proof, evidence, A video, a clip, anything of someone using JKD in A combat situation real or compitition. I'm talking, I want to see a guy using a straight blast, perry manuvers, pok sau and lop sau technics every thing thats a trademark of JKD. SHOW ME!

[gungfuhero]

I don't feel burdoned by your lack of confidence. If you aren't into parries (coincidentally a boxing staple), trapping, etc. then don't do it. In fact, I don't feel compelled to convince you that you should even call what you do JKD in a broad sense. There are already so many people who want to bad mouth JKD while using the name to further their own agenda that I think it would be a fine thing if more people without a depth of knowledge on the subject would get so disgusted by the lack of answers written in stone that they would leave JKD for an approach more suited for their tastes. I have used JKD in a variety of sparring situations (it's about 90% of what I do) including against amateur boxers and thai kick boxers. It's not a magic bullet, but it served me well. So whether or not you are convinced, and mind you I'm not trying, I am and that is what counts.

[gungfuhero]

On a side note, the winner of UFC 3 was into ninjutsu if I'm not mistaken. With that "proof," when did you take up the art of the shadow warrior? Chuck Lidell is a phenomonal fighter who has shown his merrit a number of times; have you begun your kempo training yet? Proof, data and evidence in martial art isn't as convincing as some would like you to believe.