Bruce Lee: The first great Mixed Martial Artist?

[mfern31]

First off, The winner of UFC 1,2,and 3 was Hoyce Gracie ( BJJ). Second Chuck Liddel is an awsome fighter but his kempo is never seen in fights . He also has adopted Muay Thai, and BJJ. Third I've studied JKD for years and I've been in enough streat fight to know what works, and if you know anything about JKD you know that Bruce Lee adopted boxing, Muay Thai, Jiu JItsu as part of his JKD. Where do you think tha JKD fighting stance comes from. JKD is a concept not a style of fighting. I did not leave JKD for something else JKD is EXploring other things, but JKD intructors and students are so hard headed about this that they've lost sight of what JKD is all about. I do question Bruce Lee's fighting record and do question some technics tauhgt in JKD today, just as Bruce questioned his art of Wing Chung and his intructors and all the traditional martial arts communities for that matter. Im not trying to convince you just enlightend you.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

it is extremely Wrong.....

it is a very wrong to say that Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do is a type of Mix Martial Arts......

why???????

cause you could not even hit Bruce Lee even just once....... and his Jeet Kune Do will hit you often......

while Mix Martial Arts are using their own head and chest to block opponents punches and kicks........

Note:
Using your own Chest and your own Face or head to block opponents attack is a very far to compare Bruce Lee's Methods of fighting...... Mix Martial Arts is a Human Dummy and Bruce doesnt like that......

Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do is more like a Modified WingChun........

Hope you get it........

the reason why all of the type of martial arts that comming out of Bruce's mouth on all of his films and documentary CD's are all KungFu.......

Yeah you fell for it Mixed Martial Arts, isn't something specific, no matter how much MMA people like us to think so, the term was used for a specific kind of competition were a mix of different MA would compete, now all of a sudden it would be BJJ or wrestling combined with MT, no way jose

JKD is a Mix of, but he shure as he wasn't the first to do so, how do you think new arts and styles develop, as a mix of what others have to offer

In the past we would call that an eclectic art

Bruce DID use Boxing and Savate as a base too, so to say that JKD is modified WC is not giving it the credits it deserves

Heck I believe Bruce also trained with "Judo" Gene Labelle

The whole principle bruce had in mind is that different people use different stuff and no art in itself is enough ( hey thats MMA isn't it?)
Where bruce might find his knowledge of WC very usefull others might have with Boxing

It is very hard to be a teacher in JKD because you should have knowledge of all the mainstream MA and offer it to the students instead of focussing on the WCstyle trapping, because of this you are under the impression that JKD is no more than modified WC

[gungfuhero]

Thank you for trying to enlighten me.

Royce Gracie did not win UFC 3; Steve Jennum, ninjutsu practitioner of Nebraska, won UFC by beating Harold Howard. Doesn't it follow then that ninjutsu is what we should study since it worked in the octagon?

While I think that JKD should take a progressive approach, within reason, JKD is NOT simply forming your own eclectic mix of "whatever works" or "the best form each style." There is a distinct philosophical and technological matrix to JKD. Therefore, if you blend boxing, bjj and wrestling, the product is no more JKD than if you blended aikido, karate and judo. Although there may be different forms of JKD superficially, all legitimate forms will have the same core principles. Simply mixing martial arts would better be refered to as mixed martial arts than JKD, since JKD was developed by a particular person and thus at the very least carries the connotations that said person was at least involved with the art.

While wing chun as a system was abandoned, it certainly shaped the expression of boxing that is present in JKD. The savate element is also not strictly savate. JKD is not an ecclectic art due to the way the various elements interact. It is reminicent of Gestalt where the whole is not equal to the sum of the parts.

[EmptyneSs]

so like, are all mixed martial artists practitioners of jkd since jkd isnt a style but a concept because they combine different stuff and make it work for em in the ring?

[EmptyneSs]

also, jkd pretty much is a style for sure isnt it? i know bruce said he didnt want it to be a style, but it has so totally become a style and that is undeniable.

[mfern31]

My mistake ,your right about the UFC royce Gracie won 1,2, and 4. Ive talking ninjitsu and their is alot of useful things in it. But I looked back at that fight and you dont really see alot of it in that fight, also Ninjitsu is an art that use boxing like strikes and MuayThai like kicks and they practice ground work its a pretty complete art. The Kata's and forms and trapping technics are useless.

[mfern31]

Dude are you sure you practice JKD? Thats exactly what Bruce did ,take the best things out of each MA and modified it to work for him. Before that people stuck with one style and that was it. He taught us that no styles is best . Whats best is a combination of styles. JKd was never supposed to be a style Bruce even regreted naming it. AS soon as you say that JKD has to follow certain technics and do something a certain way it shaters the whole Idea of JKD. For example , if your a righty JKD as it is today teaches to fight southpaw, but what if that doesnt work for a paticular person. Is he to explore other options or be bound buy what he is being taught. Jkd is a concept and a philosophy that should be experience on you own and figured out for your self. The problem is if that was the case and intructors followed the true spirit of JKD their would not be any money for them to make.

[gungfuhero]

I'm quite sure I study JKD; in fact, I've studied with several people who learned directly under Bruce Lee. I agree that JKD is what Bruce Lee called his process of research and development in the martial arts, but what does that have to do with other people using his term (JKD) as the name for their own personal research. I'm sure that you, mfern31, advocate taking what works best for you from the martial arts, but if I said "I am an expert on mfern31 kung fu because I take what works for me," you would probably question my motives as to why I am attaching the name of your body of work to mine.

If you claim to be doing JKD, it is a commitment to preserving the historicity of Bruce Lee's art while advancing it. If you simply call whatever it is that you do JKD because you have an ecclectic approach, what does that have to do with JKD? Take christianity, not every faith doctrine that includes loving your neighbor and god is christianity. Subscribing to particular parts of the doctrine does not automatically make your beliefs that of the doctrine.

In keeping with the spirit of research and development, which is an essential part of JKD, it is imperitive that the JKD practitioner actually knows the basis of JKD. Bruce Lee actually did teach a particular way of doing things. He did not just tell his students to do whatever and call it JKD. Watch Dan Inosanto's definitive series. He clearly states that it is essential for the JKD practitioner to have a base in the method of Bruce Lee. Otherwise it is something else. It may be equally valid and quite efficient, but it is not JKD. While JKD practitioners should continue to grow and evolve, there is a common denominator among us which is the method Bruce Lee taught. It serves as the matrix for growth.

[Tant01]

[QUOTE=mfern31...Thats exactly what Bruce did ,take the best things out of each MA and modified it to work for him. Before that people stuck with one style and that was it. He taught us that no styles is best . Whats best is a combination of styles. ....
.[/QUOTE]


BL was not the first to train in multiple styles... I can think of at least two Kuntao masters that were mixing MA's long before Bruce came on the scene. Donn Draeger and W. Fairbairn, for example, had more than one blackbelt...Silat has always been about mixing styles to defeat the tactics and techniques of the neighboring enemies/tribes.. BL gets credit for it because he was a MOVIE STAR...In his homeland and here in the US. And because there are a lot of ignorant MAists

[Ryu (JKD?)]

What an annoying debate.

[mfern31]

Bro , I've studied what you would call traditional JKD, as funny as that may sound. Bruce taught his JKD to people ,yes, but what was it , a mixture of boxing,thai boxing, tae kwon do, wing chung, jiu jitsu, relying on speed strengh, you name it. He was a wing chung artist and he thought there was a better way so he persuid it. You talk about the basis of jeet kune do , well the basis is composed of all those arts I just named and more. " Forget forms kata's dont be bound by one style, be fluent, fast , strong like water" I think Bruce Lee said that. I studie JKD for many years im simply in persiut of a better way more fluent, because I realized that the way JKD is taught today is not what it was ment to be just another set of rules to be bound by and fancy traditional movments like the Kali and the Silat.

[gungfuhero]

It is not the case that Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do is studying those styles. That completely fails to acknowledge that is the synergy between elements from those styles and the inovations that Lee made. Studying Wing Chun, Boxing, Thai boxing, Jiu jitsu, fencing and savate will not in and of it self give you Jeet Kune Do. It is the particular way in which Bruce Lee synthesized those elements and what he brought to them that makes Jeet Kune Do what it is. You may have all of the components of a Porche in your garage, but the way they go together is what defines it. That is, in your own words, the basis of Jeet Kune Do. From that base their is growth and evolution, but without the base, there is nothing intrinsically Jeet Kune Do about it. It is simply mixed martial arts.

[sherwinc]

It is not the case that Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do is studying those styles. That completely fails to acknowledge that is the synergy between elements from those styles and the inovations that Lee made. Studying Wing Chun, Boxing, Thai boxing, Jiu jitsu, fencing and savate will not in and of it self give you Jeet Kune Do. It is the particular way in which Bruce Lee synthesized those elements and what he brought to them that makes Jeet Kune Do what it is. You may have all of the components of a Porche in your garage, but the way they go together is what defines it. That is, in your own words, the basis of Jeet Kune Do. From that base their is growth and evolution, but without the base, there is nothing intrinsically Jeet Kune Do about it. It is simply mixed martial arts.

it is really impossible to learning Jeet Kune Do without WingChun..... why????

cause if Jeet Kune Do is more like a Mix Martial Arts.... then Bruce Lee is a Human Dummy type of Jeet Kune Do.....

cause Bruce Lee will not allow his opponent to hit him, and Bruce Lee never used his face or his chest to block opponents punches and kicks.....

so, WingChun is recommended to learn first before studying Jeet Kune Do

[gungfuhero]

I'm not fully sure I understand your post, but as far as having to study wing chun before JKD...

I don't think that the study of pure wing chun is essential to JKD. While I do think that it would probably help sharpen up the wing chun influenced tools (that is my primary reason for investigating it) present in JKD, it may not be necessary. Personally, the experience I've gained in cross training in the arts that contributed to JKD is invaluable to me, especially my research in boxing and fencing. I also think that it is good for JKD exponents to look outside the box and interact with other arts. The knowledge you gain from experiencing other methods will at least give you an idea of what you may be up against or even help you fill in a hole in your martial repetoire by the assimilation of new concepts.

[ThebruceX]

Jeet kune do - way of the intercepting fist

Use no way as a way
- Adapt what is usefull (use kicks punches and other techniques that are usefull to you, the individual. Finding these your best techniques may involve exploring more than 3 martials arts)
- reject what is useless (if you work as hard as you can, but still won't be able to get your leg up in the air, then use it on the knees or groin, but not the head)
- add what is specially yours. (use de boxing hook, you found out you where good at, use the choking technique that works for you, do your footwork, train your guts off)

Use no limitation as a limitation

JKD is not a style, its above the style. Shotokan stance, deep, solid, but slow, Tae kwondo, lots of kicks... train 4 hours daily to get your balance.. and no punches? Muay thai wins muah vs Kung fu. Why? Muay thai used to kicks on body and large stamina.

Bruce lee says: If you are in to a streetfight you better train all of your bodyparts. Ok, I have practiced karate ,ju jitsu, Tae Kwondo and boxing.
I found out that I will only use the simple and effective techniques. Karate thought me (wado ryu) Hipsnap, fistsnap, evading, stepping a side. Boxing improved my stamina, footwork, other punches! I combine those techniques with the snapping techniques and evading. tae kwondo addes kickingpower, I never loose contact with opponent, so no spinning for me. Ju jitsu.... Serves for me as the link between closecombat/groundcombat. Wado ryu Karate, is also based on ju jitsu, and uses elbows in a lot of ways. I now know what I can use best for ME, I let go of bruce's theories and trainings methods, know I'm using the filosophy of JKD and the techniques that work best for me.

try and think this over, fill in your own MA's think of what are your best techniques, what can you use, what works in cagefights? try that... etc etc. JKD is evolving constantly at an individual level.