How tough was Bruce Lee?

[dimmak786]

Re "I'm not sure whether Bruce would be a world champion in MMA (if he were alive today) or not. He wasn't a world champion full contact kickboxer, or a world champion Judoka, or a world champion western wrestler or boxer. He fenced, but was not a world champion fencer. So I don't know about that statement that he would be a world champion in MMA today."

And is being a world champ in those disciplines any kind of gauge as to how he would do in MMA? Is being a champ in any of those fields a pre-requisite to being a world champ in MMA???!!

NO. Your post is ridiculous.

Few if any MMA "world champs" have been good enough to cut it in those other fields or disciplines.

Randy Couture couldnt even get his old arse into the olympics let alone win it.
Sakuaraba was a pro wrestler play fighting for a living.
Lidell would get kayoed by anyone average in K1 . The gRacies were only world champs in Brazil.
On theother side of the coin Hideoka Yoshia an olympic champ in judo was only average in MMA. World champ boxers Ray mercer, Frans Botha and Shannon Briggs have been poor in MMA. A world champ kickboxer maurice smith was a MMA world champion.

So there is no hard and fast rule.

I think Bruce's inate freakish strength, speed and mind would have murdered any modern day MMA fighter under 180.

[bodhisattva]

Sort of a weird question, maybe absurdly n00bish. I know nothing about Martial Arts except what I learned in Tae Kwon Do about 10 years ago, when I was 11. I know he's respected as an innovator and a pioneer, a sort of Renaissance Man, but could he kick my ass? Was he truly feared as a fighter, or was it all kind of aesthetic? Did he ever have any sort of competitive fights? Can he genuinely be considered one of the toughest SOBs, and how would he stack up against modern Martial Arts champions?

Just sort of interested, I love his movies and I find him to be extremely charismatic, and... well, he looks to me like a tough little guy. The Lee vs Norris fight scene is what made me look into Martial Arts initially.

I don't know how tough Bruce was, but he was definitely a pioneer. If you read through the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, Bruce was studying western boxing and judo and wrestling. In a sense, he was very truly the first Mixed Martial Artist to come out of the 60's/70's.

Which is why it is always kind of weird to me that people who pursue Jeet Kune Do often do Wing Chun. That's where Bruce started. That's not where he eventually went.

--

I'm not sure whether Bruce would be a world champion in MMA (if he were alive today) or not. He wasn't a world champion full contact kickboxer, or a world champion Judoka, or a world champion western wrestler or boxer. He fenced, but was not a world champion fencer. So I don't know about that statement that he would be a world champion in MMA today.

I do agree he'd revel in all the cross training. He was the guy that re-invented the cross training.

[dimmak786]

If Bruce was alive and competing in this day and age. I beleive he would have been the first MMA to kill someone live on a payperview.

I beleive he would have exposed all the shaolin tricksters of this day as fraud especially that celebrity bum teaching up in new york.

He would have been 150 ilbs of lean muscle not 130 and he wouldnt have lost any speed or power.
I beleive Bruce would have revelled in having all these new cross training avenues open and would certainly have been a world champion in MMA.

he probably would have had a short distinguished career in MMA while he concentrated on writing and directing movies.

A career similar to Bas Ruttens or Royce and Rickson Gracie in UFC/Pride where he got in made his point and got out

[mano012sg]

bruce lee was extremely skilled. yeah he is idolized alot, but he had skill. the speed and power he could generate was insane for a person of his size. i think he would decimate people in his weight division if he was to compete in mma. if this dude could generate so much power in his 1 inch punch, i would think a full powered punch by him would cause absolute devastation. bruce lee acheived skills that most of us never will. i aint a bruce lee worshiper or anything, but from what ive read about him, and from the footage ive seen of him at seminars and whatnot, its evident that bruce had extreme skills that most of us will never have.

My friend...I am not kidding here...but I believe you have got the essence of JKD. coz your view is not partial or impartial. its just direct and logical. btw...this is also Bruce Lee's philosophy. But for you...this is how you see the truth...without taking sides. (or is some one gonna argue on this point?)

[mano012sg]

"If you don't want to accept something, you will almost always find a flaw; If you want to except something, you will always find it's worth. However, if you neither accept nor reject it, just see it as IT IS...then you will see the Truth" -- Anonymous.

[lucidmist]

with most of the Bruce Lee detractors out there, they used the fact that he was an actor to discredit his martial or fighting abilities. i don't think you can bring a man down in fighting skill just because he's an actor, singer, artist, cook, teacher, babysitter, whatever. if you have been training for over a decade to fight, just becos some movie director gives you a part to play in a film doesn't make you a fake martial artist.

also, many of the people who gave their accounts of Bruce Lee were not related to him, or connected to JKD. they were in another discipline entirely, and did not take up JKD or Wing Chun. there would've been no need for them to sing Bruce's praises. it would've made their art or themselves look weaker becos there's always a chance that it would seem like they were acknowledging someone else from another style was better.

Bruce also never once said that he was THE Best. Neither did he say that he was one of the best. But that doesn't mean he can't fight.

for most people who've just trained a year in martial arts consistently with regular practice, i'm sure you'd have noticed the increase in punching power and speed in general. Bruce trained over a decade. Even if he couldn't beat everyone, he would've attained some measure of speed, power and proficiency (not saying having more years in training = better fighter, but at least there's a good chance of that). And judging by how people were flocking to him for tips and lessons, even through sparring, he would've proved a fair level of prowess. of course, it'd be easier to prove oneself through sparring than an actual fight, cos confidence during sparring tends to be higher. but speed and reflexes can be gauged through sparring.

just some opinions.

[Tom Yum]

captain kirk would have kicked his ass.

He had trouble fighting the Gorn

[Happy Cat]

I read an interview yesterday from one of the actors on the set of enter the dragon. He discused seeing bruce finaly acsept a chalenge from a martial artist who was on the set as an extra. Bruce tried to deescalate, but the fight was forced.

The witness said that Bruce moved so fast that the witness did not even think the extra was hit, until he opend his mouth and he saw all the blood.

[Ghost]

captain kirk would have kicked his ass.

[fenwick99]

re

I have studied everything I could possibly find concerning the life and teachings of Bruce Lee, and I have done so since 1982.
Conclusions:

1. He was a bad kid.

2. He was a good husband and father as a man, but he may have cheated on his wife, too.

3. He started out as a nice guy, but he may have become a jerk toward the end of his life.

4. He could not defeat Judo Gene LeBell, Master Mark, Shihan Desova(?)

or Wong Shun Leung.

5. Chuck Norris was afraid of him.

6. Joe Lewis wanted to beat Bruce up once, but Bruce won the confrontation by fighting without fighting.

7. Bruce Lee could have kicked my ass.

8. Bruce Lee could have kicked your ass.

[Ghost]

Leg sparring and traiing with leg kicks lets you 'suck' up more punishment to the legs than those who don't.

Yes they still feel pain, but its more tolerable. Just like taking a punch to the face. Yeah it hurts, but when you've taken a few before its not as bad.

sorry but low kicks can and do make a huge difference.in terms of kicking i would say it would be the best single kick in terms of chances of it landing vs effect.

to put this at the front is madness especially considering most people are orthodox in stance and your front foot in southpaw has a less direct groin strike. it just doenst make any sense to me to switch. cons outweight the pros easily when it comes to kicking and kneeing in southpaw if its not your natrual side.

[Tom Yum]

Leg sparring and traiing with leg kicks lets you 'suck' up more punishment to the legs than those who don't.

Yes they still feel pain, but its more tolerable. Just like taking a punch to the face. Yeah it hurts, but when you've taken a few before its not as bad.

[Ghost]

Alot of people aren't used to being kicked in the legs and remain unflinched when it comes barreling down at the sciatic nerve...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/231970...ck_to_the_leg/

i have no idea what that means, does that mean youhave to be trained in order to feel pain?
pain is pain.
a painful dead leg will screw up most people punching and movement, trained or not.
if someone can do it properly or not is another matter, but even if you cant get the pain part to work the fact you destabalize them is enough to create some good openings.
very useful

[Tom Yum]

Alot of people aren't used to being kicked in the legs and remain unflinched when it comes barreling down at the sciatic nerve...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/231970/thai_kick_to_the_leg/

[Ghost]

First, leads do not normally even matter in a street fight. You usually have to react to a surprise attack with no time to assume a stance. You may be in an awkward position like being "on the throne" in a public john (insert Senator Craig joke here...)
In terms of your general point, perhaps mt and bbj
is the challenge of 21st century jkd, to maintain the integrity of the right lead against muay thai. Many mma guys lead strong side forward, because the shot in wrestling usually is done off the power side.

Second, I don't buy the idea any man of Mr. Lee's size, no matter how good, could have beaten Oyama. That said, not everyone believes the myth of Oyama, either. His 270-0 record and his claims to invincibility has been challenged by many writers. I will buy the fact that he knocked out Black Cobra, the heavyweight muay thai champion. Even though the best thai fighters were/are
in 120 or 125 pound range, it was still quite an accomplishment to beat a thai champ under thai rules. Thai boxers destroyed most of the karate and kung-fu stylists who faced them. For that, at least, the godhand deserves sacred respect. But do not believe everything you read. I am suspicious of anything like Ricson Gracie's claim to a 400-0 record.
Like Liddell, anyone can lose a fight.

id suggest most street fights start with a verbal confrontation + pushing.
powerful rear low kick is a weapon i want to have and i want to stay upright in a street fight, last place i want to be is on the ground.
so strong side stays logically at the rear.