To people who don't seem to believe Bruce Lee is the real deal..

[Ghost]

The problem with hypothetical discussions is you can make whatever outrageous claims you like and no one can prove or disprove them. Its all unfounded opinion, on both sides. As a JKD practicioner, an admirer of Mr Lee, and someone who trains in the world of Boxing, my unfounded opinion is that your claim is highly unlikely. I also believe that if Mr Lee were around today, he would tell you the same thing.

Good points.
My view is that its a big gap between sparring and getting in the ring or having a real fight against someone that can fight.
Ive seen too many times people that look shit hot in the gym, are as fit as a fiddle and can spar with anyone, stick them in the ring and suddenly it all goes to rat shit and everyone from the gym is left wondering what happened.
Based on seeing this happen a few too many times i wont ever assume anyone can fight unless its proven regardless of their abilities outside of the ring.
This is why im not impressed with any of the demonstration videos and so on in relation to real fighting ability. Its too far a leap to make. We can make guesses and so on but thats all they are.
I dont make any excepetions for bruce lee because of his name as i wouldnt for mike tyson if i saw him train but hed never fought. id still say we dont know. I dont have some special criterial when it comes to bruce lees ability, its the same for everyone, unproven is unproven. If people say i think he would be good or i bet hed be good then fine. to state it as fact is not.
I should probably just ignore these threads.

[Tom Yum]

What's extensive - Tae Kwon Do point sparring since the age of 8, like a friend of mine, or lots of street fighting and amatuer boxing since the same time, like my own experience (and an art called Pankration for 5 years now). Hope to add Wing Chun in the next few weeks (currently talking with diferrent teachers in that art -so far, none have wanted to spar so I can see what they are about). Somethin about their being "deadly."

Really, you obviously have a very limted view of the word "extensive." What is your martial background? I'm not talking about, 'well, ten years in such and such,' if the reality is it was never consistently battle tested. Honestly.

I'm suprised as a practitioner of pankration (for 5 years as you state) that you'd get so worked up about a theoretical Bruce Lee fight.

Some of the techniques that the wing chun guys use can't be used in the ring - as far as the art itself, its not a complete fighting system, even though its strong in its infighting range.

There isn't a boxer then or now that could've survived Lee's speed, power, strategy - not a one! Be that in the street or the ring. Matter settled. Case closed. ..

The problem with hypothetical discussions is you can make whatever outrageous claims you like and no one can prove or disprove them. Its all unfounded opinion, on both sides. As a JKD practicioner, an admirer of Mr Lee, and someone who trains in the world of Boxing, my unfounded opinion is that your claim is highly unlikely. I also believe that if Mr Lee were around today, he would tell you the same thing.

[Liberty]

it means i thought you were young from the way you post and the way you talk about things.
Im 30.
was wondering what your experience in martial arts is, obviously its not going to be extensive at 17 but i just wondered what it is.

What's extensive - Tae Kwon Do point sparring since the age of 8, like a friend of mine, or lots of street fighting and amatuer boxing since the same time, like my own experience (and an art called Pankration for 5 years now). Hope to add Wing Chun in the next few weeks (currently talking with diferrent teachers in that art -so far, none have wanted to spar so I can see what they are about). Somethin about their being "deadly."

Really, you obviously have a very limted view of the word "extensive." What is your martial background? I'm not talking about, 'well, ten years in such and such,' if the reality is it was never consistently battle tested. Honestly.

[Ghost]

What's that suposed to mean? How old are you?

it means i thought you were young from the way you post and the way you talk about things.
Im 30.
was wondering what your experience in martial arts is, obviously its not going to be extensive at 17 but i just wondered what it is.

[Liberty]

What's that suposed to mean? How old are you?

[Ghost]

right thats about what i thought, thanks for answer honestly though.

Whats your experience in martial arts?

[Liberty]

17, why; cause I'm so smart?

[Ghost]

Liberty how old are you out of interest?

serious question

[Liberty]

If Lee Were Alive Today...

I really dont get how this discussion is working, how can you judge the fighting ability of someone you have never seen fight and has never fought anyone worth mentioning?

By the same token, how can you judge the fighting in-ability of that same man, whom you have not seen fight?

Why don't you just let them have their fun? What harm is that to you?

Lucid, Tom: There isn't a boxer then or now that could've survived Lee's speed, power, strategy - not a one! Be that in the street or the ring. Matter settled. Case closed. No matter what Casper, Spooky, the Ghostly Trio, or any other Ghost, for that matter, thinks.

Of course, UFC is something else altogether. Guys like Rampage, et al, would tear Lee to shreds.

Why? These guys live for pain. Look at how Frank Shamrock mocks someone who just smacked him into next week! Of course, someone like Crop Crop would barely get past the gate! After an ecounter with Lee his new name would be Cro Drop!

What am I basing this UFC stuff on? Those guys train every bit as hard, every bit as scientifically now, as Lee did for his time. Even if he did now. They are bigger, powerful, fast, predatory, fearless, can both dish out and take absolutely amazing amounts of pain, and they fight guys just like that all the time as well. Most of all, they live for war!

There is simply no way I can believe that if Lee were alive today, in his prime, fighting in that venue, he'd be unbeatable in his gorund game against every single one of those guys.

He'd make mince meat out of Hughes, Penn, smaller guys like that who he'd train like only he could for. But not some of the bigger ones.

That said, I do not believe he would compete in those venues. I mean, why take beatings when you can make better money with books, movies, and so forth? How much has Enter the Dragon made; what is it - almost a billion, or something? Why take bruisings for a living when he could just as well not only get his glory but put out his message the way he ended up doing? Look at the influence he's had around the world for going on 50 years, as a movie action hero. He is bigger then even Ali, who was huge, ever was.

Not to mention Lee trained for the street - hard. To turn around and train on curbing the instincts developed for that for the rules of sports like the UFC would be counter-productive, and basically, stupid.

Not to mention, a dumb marketing move. We're not talking boxing here. Where stratetgy, speed and power dominate, hence Lee would've wiped them all out. We're talking a sport where, when someone gets a hold of you, they can crush your face into pulp - not very smart for a movie star.

All who encountered him have said he was an awesome martial artist years ahead of his time. But unbeatable? Who is? whos' ever been?

If we went backwords and pitted him against Japan's legendary swordsman, Miyamoto Musahsi. How would Lee have faird against one of the greates swordsman the world has supposedly ever known? I mean this guy suposedly reached a point early on where he just never lost at slicing people in half.

Instead, if Lee were alive today and in his prime, he'd be doing what he was doing back then. That was what he did, that was what he wanted to do with his life.That was his passion. This is what he meant by declaring he was a martial artist. As Inosnato was for a time a martial artist who happened to be a school teacher. The world is full of people like that. Like Taky Kimura, a grocer, who but for Lee's fame would just be some quite little guy somewhere able to handle himself on the street.

On the other hand, if Lee were and old man today. He'd be a Clint Esatwood. Who went from bad movie acting to great movie directing. Lee had even said he'd hoped "to do with the chop-socky flicks what Eastwood has done with the spaghetti westerns." At what stage was he when he died? He'd completely overseen every aspect of "Way," and was doing the same with "Game." As with Esatwood's early movies directed by him - corny, etc. - I'm sure Lee, given his tremendous passion and talent for film, would've matured into a fine movie director, as have others.

There Casper, I mean Ghost; you happy now?

Now leave those two to their fantasy, and find one of your own.

Ah, I feel much better... Think I'll pat myself on the back...

[Ghost]

I really dont get how this discussion is working, how can you judge the fighting ability of someone you have never seen fight and has never fought anyone worth mentioning?

[Tom Yum]

Hmm. What do you think of a fight between Tyson and Bruce? Or Sugar Ray?

Not much at this point. Too much speculation, crossing even the boundaries of style/art.

[Tom Yum]

I frankly don't see Ali beating Bruce Lee.

Ali was fast for a *heavy weight* but he was no Sugar Ray Leonard or Floyd Mayweather (sp?). Mike Tyson was one of the fastest punching heavy weights of all time - not to mention a very hard hitter. Ali was a great fighter but I personally think his hype is largely due to the era of change in which he came up in, his own incredible personality, and the fact that Baby Boomers are still around to keep talking about him. Sugar Ray Robinson was *probably* the best boxer of all time - he had over a hundred fights (I think Ali only had around 30 or 40). Robinson also had great form in the ring - timeless kind of form.

Bruce was a small man but he had power in his punches and kicks that might very well have been on par with heavy weights - and that right there is astonishing.

Ali had 61 fights. 56W-37KO-5L

[lucidmist]

Bruce was a small man but he had power in his punches and kicks that might very well have been on par with heavy weights - and that right there is astonishing.

No doubt about it man.. I'm sure many of us have sparred or fought with boxers and the fight could've gone either way. That is why I don't automatically assume Bruce would lose to Ali.

However, there were instances, upon reflection, that I know for sure had I been a millisecond slower or made a mistake of not shifting backwards enough, I would've been dropped by the single punch.

What I'm trying to say is, although I believe Bruce stood a higher chance against Ali, I still think the fight could go either way. Ali's experienced, if Bruce slowed even a single bit or made one mistake, Ali would take it.

Hmm. What do you think of a fight between Tyson and Bruce? Or Sugar Ray?

[Knuckles&Knees]

Yeah man.. well, let's say even if I was someone who could beat Bruce Lee (IF), I wouldn't automatically put him down as someone who couldn't fight. I mean, if a kid's punch in the right places could cause a twinge, imagine a punch from someone like Bruce Lee.

Also, no one is unbeatable.. let's say Ali could beat him once, it may not necessarily mean Ali can beat him always, and that one fight can determine who's the better of the two.

I frankly don't see Ali beating Bruce Lee.

Ali was fast for a *heavy weight* but he was no Sugar Ray Leonard or Floyd Mayweather (sp?). Mike Tyson was one of the fastest punching heavy weights of all time - not to mention a very hard hitter. Ali was a great fighter but I personally think his hype is largely due to the era of change in which he came up in, his own incredible personality, and the fact that Baby Boomers are still around to keep talking about him. Sugar Ray Robinson was *probably* the best boxer of all time - he had over a hundred fights (I think Ali only had around 30 or 40). Robinson also had great form in the ring - timeless kind of form.

Bruce was a small man but he had power in his punches and kicks that might very well have been on par with heavy weights - and that right there is astonishing.