Trapping...Does it work?

[Mike N]

My first progressive instructor told me trapping was a result of the situation. You don't initiate as a trap. you fight, you miss, get blocked, or what ever then you just flow forward. Instead of having to break a way and re-initiate again. You just attack and an obstical gets into your path and you address that obstical. That could be an arm, leg, knee, shoulder, ect. I find even Jun fan trapping can work decent if you just flow and not focus on it. It is a very small percentage of techniques though. I say you wont be able to just jump in and do it till you practice it in controlled sparring then you get more confident into it. Start with some slower tempo sparring and work on it you will find places to trap a little at a time. practice with success and you will develope it.
It is also attribute base techniques so it takes time and effort to develope.

[fire cobra]

Na Ghost,If you can hit em just hit em,To trap is to stop a better puncher(if your trapping the hand of course) than you or perhaps a equal puncher.

Its yet again another tactic/tool to acomplish the goal,if their is a easier route then for sure take it.

All the best bro.

[Ghost]

So if we can hit without trapping we would.

i think thats where the problem lies for me, i cant say i know enough about trapping to make statements about it but id say that i cant hit someone, anytime someone makes a punch or strike they leave an opening.
so why trap?
that may be too simple but as much as i can accept it is possible to trap does it lend anything new? if you can hit them anyway that is.
just asking cos trapping for me isnt really familiar though i have some trianing in it

[pstevens]

I really wanna learn this trapping thing, I mean in sparring or maybe a real fight...what can I do?

Do what comes naturally to you... what you're good at.

When I started martial arts years ago, I wanted to learn everything. I wanted to be a complete martial artist who could do everything. This was a child's thinking.

Today, I understand that you work towards your strengths and skill sets. You have to adapt the art to your character, body-type, athleticism, etc... And if certain things will never work, find other things. Professional athletes do this as well. At the highest levels, they work their game and try to hide their weaknesses in competition.

[NaSZ]

Thanks 4 the discussion...and reading your posts im learning that trapping is riskie...it could work, but you gotta watch it.
Cuz one hook would kill you when you think you should enter to trap!

Like I said im learning JKD and im doing it for 2 years now...
I trained in the past Kyokushin Karate (brown belt) and trained Muay Thai...So you would say I know what Im doing...but when im to close, I just can not trapp..cuz the opponent will not do what they teach you..thats why I have a big head in these types of things...(you know if i do this you gotta do that) in reality they will punch you on the nose if you think it will be so easy.

So instead of trapping...I try to fight myself in by using jabs and my legs...and when im in...I try to give hooks or ellebows or knees...but my other hand is always by the face for safety...When I see my chance I will grabb and wrestle to the ground for a lock or a choke...

When I C somebody showing how to trapp..you C alwayz one arm low when hitting...so there's no defeance?? Is there?

I really wanna learn this trapping thing, I mean in sparring or maybe a real fight...what can I do?

[fire cobra]

firecobra, i have little experience in trapping, well some but not much but is what you found to work for you anything like the sort of long guard arm/hand manipulation in thai boxing if you get what i mean?

Hi Ghost,

I understand exactly what you mean bro,in the time period we have been discussing I hadnt yet learnt the "long guard" so it was pure(?) Wing Chun trapping I was trying to pull off against boxers,I quickly modified the stance so I didnt look out of place in the gym.

After I learnt the long guard I tried that to(still love that guard for certain strategys).also ater I learnt the long guard I realised the similarity beetween it and the guard position of Wing Chun,later I would realise that Wing Chun and Muay Thai had a lot in common!.

Anyway Im going of track a bit so hope that answers your question bro.

Good training Ghost.

[pstevens]

I think of trapping as a function of making a connection and stop/ deflect and counter. I think the trapping range is nearly identical to the range we call the clinch. I think alot of the clinch work is trapping. It may not be pak sau da, bong sau, tan sau type techniques. We are to tied up that trapping has to look a certain way. the 50/50 pummel is essentially you bong sau your over hooking arm and extending it into an under hook and your partner does the same. take the 50/50 pummel and extend the range and move your hand in front of your body an simulate that movement in narrower pattern. It would have a Chi sau look to it.
I think trapping is so much more than the techniques being defined as a pak sau, tan sau, ect. It is a principle of connecting, deflect, grasp and manipulate to your advantage. If you block by extending your jab to cause the deflecting arm away it is very similar to a bil sau.

Yes. Well said... Trappling like clinching is a preventive method that sets up more defense or offense. In this regard, I think trapping is effective. Where I don't see trapping is effective is someone standing at arms-length away and thinking they can trap a jab or cross. That's more like suicide... but I'm sure most folks on here understand that.

[Mike N]

I think of trapping as a function of making a connection and stop/ deflect and counter. I think the trapping range is nearly identical to the range we call the clinch. I think alot of the clinch work is trapping. It may not be pak sau da, bong sau, tan sau type techniques. We are to tied up that trapping has to look a certain way. the 50/50 pummel is essentially you bong sau your over hooking arm and extending it into an under hook and your partner does the same. take the 50/50 pummel and extend the range and move your hand in front of your body an simulate that movement in narrower pattern. It would have a Chi sau look to it.
I think trapping is so much more than the techniques being defined as a pak sau, tan sau, ect. It is a principle of connecting, deflect, grasp and manipulate to your advantage. If you block by extending your jab to cause the deflecting arm away it is very similar to a bil sau.

[Ben Grimm]

Against some schools of TMA, I've noticed my trapping is sufficient, but against boxers and wrestlers, I've had very little success.

[Ghost]

firecobra, i have little experience in trapping, well some but not much but is what you found to work for you anything like the sort of long guard arm/hand manipulation in thai boxing if you get what i mean?

[fire cobra]

I could see where trapping might work in isolated incidents: i.e. close-quarter surprise attack, etc... But overall, I don't believe it's very useful to train given the amount of time needed to be good.

The problem being, trapping has to work somewhere in between a jab and a haymaker which doesn't happend a whole lot. Let me explain:

1. The jab. It's too quick and retracts, so attempting to trap leaves you wide open for bad things.

2. Haymaker. Can't do either, because the person is coming at you full-force. You might have a chance if you're able to "stop" them before reaching momentum, but the best case scenario is to get outta the way.

The seatbelt clinch in BJJ is sort of like trapping and I've used that to seize and hold someone before they could react. I could see trapping used in this manner, as a way of restricing movement before it begins (a surprise attack), then launching your own attack.

"as a way of restricing movement before it begins (a surprise attack), then launching your own attack."

Thats what I found brother.

It is possible to trap against a fast jab but you have to trap on the retraction after touch.

[pstevens]

I could see where trapping might work in isolated incidents: i.e. close-quarter surprise attack, etc... But overall, I don't believe it's very useful to train given the amount of time needed to be good.

The problem being, trapping has to work somewhere in between a jab and a haymaker which doesn't happend a whole lot. Let me explain:

1. The jab. It's too quick and retracts, so attempting to trap leaves you wide open for bad things.

2. Haymaker. Can't do either, because the person is coming at you full-force. You might have a chance if you're able to "stop" them before reaching momentum, but the best case scenario is to get outta the way.

The seatbelt clinch in BJJ is sort of like trapping and I've used that to seize and hold someone before they could react. I could see trapping used in this manner, as a way of restricing movement before it begins (a surprise attack), then launching your own attack.

[fire cobra]

I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm not discounting your experience of it, and in fact agree with most of what you say. If you are working alot of boxing you are just best to not even bother trying to trap.

I think if you took all that training you did when your were working your trapping, and sparred classically trained Wing Chun guys, and japanese classical arts you might see how the whole trapping business arose. I think against modern boxing attack and defense it doesn't work well, or at all. Against unrefined, stuttery attacks it can, along with the attacks of classical styles.

I think it is over emphasized almost any place it is trained, and typically, the less sparring, the more elaborate the trap training.

If you don't find it helpful for you then by all means don't use it. Your identification of delusional training, is also spot on. However there is some room for disagreement here.

"I think against modern boxing attack and defense it doesn't work well, or at all.!

You think wrong Max22,maybe what you should think is that you cant or havent made it work against Boxers/Boxing.

[Max22]

It was just a bit of sarcasm, nothing serious intended.

I like your posts Max, you offer a well rounded point of view substantiated with personal experience. Disagreement is always a good thing, your experiences are your own and a credit to you.

I also don't doubt Fire Cobra's experiences, he is well known to me and highly respected by me, so if the man said he did it then he did it.

Its all good. Different points of view, different life experiences, a bit of healthy debate.

Good talking to you.

Thanks,
I've enjoyed it myself.
Good training to you!

It was just a bit of sarcasm, nothing serious intended.

I like your posts Max, you offer a well rounded point of view substantiated with personal experience. Disagreement is always a good thing, your experiences are your own and a credit to you.

I also don't doubt Fire Cobra's experiences, he is well known to me and highly respected by me, so if the man said he did it then he did it.

Its all good. Different points of view, different life experiences, a bit of healthy debate.

Good talking to you.