Trapping...Does it work?

I disagree mate you learn diferent techniques and faver certain ones but it is always worth keeping your other techniques well trained.

We'll agree to disagree, that's cool.

like bruce said take what is usefall throw away the none esentials.

like Trapping

[JUTSAU]

I disagree mate you learn diferent techniques and faver certain ones but it is always worth
keeping your other techniques well trained.as i have said before just because trapping does not work for certain individuals does,nt mean it wont work for other people.like bruce said take what is usefall throw away the none esentials.

[pstevens]

I disagree. Your training should be goverened by efficiency and a clear understanding of high percentage training methods. I don't have 50 years to waste on techniques to accomodate every point of view for the sake of politeness. There are proven methods that are tested in functional combat for all to witness, and are not based on faith, ambiguity or personal preference. Trapping does not fall into that category.



I don't see any post on this thread that forgets that



There is no such thing as a streetfighting system, it comes down to how each individual copes with the stress and pressure of real violence. In my experience the physical aspect consists of a small handful of simple, meat and potatoes basics, and has nothing to do with "training everything" - which from what I have seen only makes you a mediocre theorist.

The best thing I've read all day...

ive read all these posts and all i can say is if trapping works just once in a real life situation then its worth training

I disagree. Your training should be goverened by efficiency and a clear understanding of high percentage training methods. I don't have 50 years to waste on techniques to accomodate every point of view for the sake of politeness. There are proven methods that are tested in functional combat for all to witness, and are not based on faith, ambiguity or personal preference. Trapping does not fall into that category.

what you guys are forgeting is you only trap when your oponents arm blocks your attacking line.at the end of the day your main aim is to hit

I don't see any post on this thread that forgets that

jkd is a street fighting system.use what works for you but train everything

There is no such thing as a streetfighting system, it comes down to how each individual copes with the stress and pressure of real violence. In my experience the physical aspect consists of a small handful of simple, meat and potatoes basics, and has nothing to do with "training everything" - which from what I have seen only makes you a mediocre theorist.

[JUTSAU]

ive read all these posts and all i can say is if trapping works just once in a real life situation
then its worth training.what you guys are forgeting is you only trap when your oponents arm blocks your attacking line.at the end of the day your main aim is to hit.if you guys think trapping does not work thats your opinion.if it does,nt work against a boxer then dont use it.not everyone is a boxer.jkd is a street fighting system.use what works for you but train everything.train hard

[NaSZ]

I've been training in trapping (and of course other areas of martial arts) for 29 years and am fortunate to have trained with many top martial artists. I used to be a trapping fanatic. I loved it and feel I became fairly proficient at it.

With that being said, I use very, very little trapping when I spar or fight. For me, it's very difficult to successfully pull off. There have been a very few selective, basic trapping maneuvers that have worked for me. The complex trapping combinations..never (for me).

Now of course if I were to spar a classmate in a fun, playful manner, sure I can pull off traps. Big deal. It only matters when going against someone with some skill trying to take my head off. It is those situations I'm talking about.

Pick almost any obscure, crazy, low percentage move and a skilled martial artist can make it work against an unskilled beginner. If that's the type of person your training is geared towards, learn to throw a good jab and cross and call it a day.

I've met and trained with highly skilled people that I believe could pull off some of the more complex trapping moves. But, how worthwhile is a skill that only a very small percentage of trained martial artists have a chance at making work? It seems like a much better use of time to train techniques that work for a high percentage of martial artists that can be gained over a relatively short period of time.

I still train trapping but only because I find it fun. I still teach complex trapping (primarily in private lessons when requested) but always with a disclaimer which is, "I think it's very unlikely you can make this work in a fight, but here it is...".

Tim

This is one hell of a post...I understand you, cuz this is exactly the way I feel about this trappin.
The Gospel!

Now of course if I were to spar a classmate in a fun, playful manner, sure I can pull off traps. Big deal. It only matters when going against someone with some skill trying to take my head off. It is those situations I'm talking about.

Pick almost any obscure, crazy, low percentage move and a skilled martial artist can make it work against an unskilled beginner. If that's the type of person your training is geared towards, learn to throw a good jab and cross and call it a day.

I've met and trained with highly skilled people that I believe could pull off some of the more complex trapping moves. But, how worthwhile is a skill that only a very small percentage of trained martial artists have a chance at making work? It seems like a much better use of time to train techniques that work for a high percentage of martial artists that can be gained over a relatively short period of time.

Hallelujah.

Bang on Tim, excellent post.

[Tim Mousel]

I've been training in trapping (and of course other areas of martial arts) for 29 years and am fortunate to have trained with many top martial artists. I used to be a trapping fanatic. I loved it and feel I became fairly proficient at it.

With that being said, I use very, very little trapping when I spar or fight. For me, it's very difficult to successfully pull off. There have been a very few selective, basic trapping maneuvers that have worked for me. The complex trapping combinations..never (for me).

Now of course if I were to spar a classmate in a fun, playful manner, sure I can pull off traps. Big deal. It only matters when going against someone with some skill trying to take my head off. It is those situations I'm talking about.

Pick almost any obscure, crazy, low percentage move and a skilled martial artist can make it work against an unskilled beginner. If that's the type of person your training is geared towards, learn to throw a good jab and cross and call it a day.

I've met and trained with highly skilled people that I believe could pull off some of the more complex trapping moves. But, how worthwhile is a skill that only a very small percentage of trained martial artists have a chance at making work? It seems like a much better use of time to train techniques that work for a high percentage of martial artists that can be gained over a relatively short period of time.

I still train trapping but only because I find it fun. I still teach complex trapping (primarily in private lessons when requested) but always with a disclaimer which is, "I think it's very unlikely you can make this work in a fight, but here it is...".

Tim

[kingoftheforest]

Trapping is something you practice but in a real fight it turns out to be incidental.

Like an eye gouge, you don't aim for it. You practice it familiarize yourself with it, know how it feels, and what it "looks" like, and if it happens you automatically respond with it in your flow.

[fire cobra]

I don't disagree that Guro Dan, Paul, Bruce and many other people will testify to the effectiveness of Trapping.

What I have learned over the years is that what people say, and what they really do, are two entirely different things.

Fair point Michael,Ive found much the same.

I don't disagree that Guro Dan, Paul, Bruce and many other people will testify to the effectiveness of Trapping.

What I have learned over the years is that what people say, and what they really do, are two entirely different things.

[fire cobra]

[QUOTE=ShawnJKD;324457]I find it interesting that DBMA is used as an example to prove that trapping doesn't work when Marc Denny makes a point of showing where the trapping comes into play at his seminars (explosive pak sao da). He makes it work by setting it up, putting his oppenent into a position when the trap is ready to go. I believe the new Running Dog game employs some trapping as well in the ground game.

Just this weekend at a seminar Guro Inosanto made a point of the fact that trapping "works" when the correct structure presents itself - and that it doesn't work when that structure is not present. If a barrier is there then it can be "trapped". Also, as someone else mentioned earlier, it is possible to trap after the attack - I think it is Vunak who said at one point that there are 5 times to trap: 1) Before the Attack 2) As the Attack comes in 3) At the moment of Attack 4) as the Attack retracts and 5) after the Attack

Whether you can make those opportunities work for you will have something to do with your attacker's attributes and your own.

Shawn[/QUOTE

Good post ShawnJKD,

I think Bruce Lee if asked this question of "does trapping work" would of said yes.

[ShawnJKD]

I find it interesting that DBMA is used as an example to prove that trapping doesn't work when Marc Denny makes a point of showing where the trapping comes into play at his seminars (explosive pak sao da). He makes it work by setting it up, putting his oppenent into a position when the trap is ready to go. I believe the new Running Dog game employs some trapping as well in the ground game.

Just this weekend at a seminar Guro Inosanto made a point of the fact that trapping "works" when the correct structure presents itself - and that it doesn't work when that structure is not present. If a barrier is there then it can be "trapped". Also, as someone else mentioned earlier, it is possible to trap after the attack - I think it is Vunak who said at one point that there are 5 times to trap: 1) Before the Attack 2) As the Attack comes in 3) At the moment of Attack 4) as the Attack retracts and 5) after the Attack

Whether you can make those opportunities work for you will have something to do with your attacker's attributes and your own.

Shawn

[Tant01]

Depends on intent

Trapping is best utilized with techniques like skin listening or sticking hands.

You make initial contact with your opponent, then you don't allow contact to break. As long as there is contact you know where your opponent is.

It would be easy to put "TRAPPING" in a nice little box say it will work with X or Y...

It seems to me any attachment can be a trap.

What of the boxer taking measure with jabs. Attachment or no it can break the cadence/ rhythm... Is that trapping?

[kingoftheforest]

Trapping is best utilized with techniques like skin listening or sticking hands.

You make initial contact with your opponent, then you don't allow contact to break. As long as there is contact you know where your opponent is.