I dont know BJJ but whats the best way to get someone off the top of you?

[SimonM]

This is true. The bottom guy needs to attack what he can reach or escape the position or put the other guy in a less dominant position that you can more easily attack or escape from.

My point is if the guy on top is in the full mount you're in a hurtfull way.
He can reach you but you can not reach him.

You see I don't disagree with you on this provided that the aggressor is a trained ground fighter who knows how to properly apply the mount position. However the question wasn't "how do I get out of a properly executed mount position" it was "how do you get someone off the top of you". Now I don't know if it was in this or another thread but regardless I will reiterate this now: ANY technique executed on the ground depends on the relative position of the two opponents. However when dealing with the vague generalities of the question asked my answers are as valid as any other.

Also I am not talking as refined (or - lets face it - movie like) as scooping the orbit. However if an assailant crouches on top of their attacker and puts their face within arms reach jamming them in the eye will probably distract the assailant enough to get out from underneath. Finally I did not start my response to this thread by saying "don't practice position based submission grappling martial arts" I just provided a few techniques that under some circumstances, primarily in an SD oriented situation can assist a defender in escaping.

Being totally honest if we want to talk about an SD situation and the attacker is in essentailly a mount position the best advice is to file under "don't let this happen to you in the first place". Really either don't let the attacker take you to the ground or, failing that, don't let the attacker assume a mount position. Keep them in guard until you can navigate to a more strategically viable position.

[Tant01]

...Also I am not talking as refined (or - lets face it - movie like) as scooping the orbit. However if an assailant crouches on top of their (victim) and puts their face within arms reach jamming them in the eye will probably distract the assailant enough to get out from underneath....
....

Movie like? LOL Nothing entertaining about eyeballs dangling from the bloody sockets by the optic nerves...

Perhaps the definition of Gouge is in order? For what it's worth I also teach this technique along with variations for distracting or inflicting various levels of trauma. It's good stuff but in my opinion doing it from the bottom position while on your back would be futile and only serve to insure your own demise.

Source; Webster's new universal unabridged dictionary. deluxe second edition

Gouge v.t.
1. to scoop out with or as with a gouge.
2. to force out (the eye of a person) with the thumb or finger.
...

As soon as you reach up to try that crap a "trained" grappler will break your arm or choke you out.... But you don't have to take my word for it.

[SimonM]

Movie like? LOL Nothing entertaining about eyeballs dangling from the bloody sockets by the optic nerves...

Perhaps the definition of Gouge is in order? As soon as you reach up to try that crap a "trained" grappler will break your arm or choke you out.... But you don't have to take my word for it.

Sorry but Kill Bill bugged the hell out of me.

By gouge I was NEVER implying the removal of the eye, just the infliction of trauma to it. And to be blunt if I thought I was facing a trained grappler (I am one myself, I did Greco Roman Wrestling in elementary and highschool and have some background in Judo, Chin'Na and JJJ) in an SD situation I would be doing my best to stay on my feet; in a real fight the ground is a variable that I'd rather avoid.

[polegirl]

basically I think women need to be modest big time if they want my respect.

I would rather fight with another guy personally unless I was good friends with another girl who I could be mutual with. I dont mind fighting a girl if I have to, the point is I dont want to do it.

Thank god not every guy who does BJJ thinks like you! And what is this thing about modesty. What does that have to do with BJJ? So when a woman is grappling she should make sure she is completely covered at all times. Yeah I could just see that, every 10 seconds "Hang on I need to adjust my gi", "Hang on I need to adjust my hair" "Hang on my makeup is smudged". So a woman earns your respect if she is modest. But what if she is modest and a horrible person? Still giving her your respect? Personally I don't find your attitude respectful at all. If you cannot respect the people you grapple with (whether they are a man or a woman)then maybe you need to stop doing BJJ! And don't tell me that "well I do it if I have to" is not disrespectful, got news for you, it is. But as I said, thank god most guys (from my experience) who do BJJ are not like you. Okay I have finished, will pop on my dress and apron and will head back to the kitchen!!!!!!!

[jdolsenmau]

Take a grappling class to really see, feel and try what will work for you.

[Andrew WA]

My point is if the guy on top is in the full mount you're in a hurtfull way.

Is there any possible way that when the guy is mountaing you and you are on the bottom that you can take your hand or hands and grab his balls and violently yank and tear at them to get him off of you? That is before he grabs your wrists. I mean if the eye balls are to far away the sweets are still pretty close to grab.

[Andrew WA]

About eye gouging: well what about poking the eye? Thats about the same effect without tearing it out.

And eye gouging on martial arts movies to me is entertaining. Have you seen 5 Fingers of Death? CLASSIC!!

[Andrew WA]

Thank god not every guy who does BJJ thinks like you! And what is this thing about modesty. What does that have to do with BJJ? So when a woman is grappling she should make sure she is completely covered at all times. Yeah I could just see that, every 10 seconds "Hang on I need to adjust my gi", "Hang on I need to adjust my hair" "Hang on my makeup is smudged". So a woman earns your respect if she is modest. But what if she is modest and a horrible person? Still giving her your respect? Personally I don't find your attitude respectful at all. If you cannot respect the people you grapple with (whether they are a man or a woman)then maybe you need to stop doing BJJ! And don't tell me that "well I do it if I have to" is not disrespectful, got news for you, it is. But as I said, thank god most guys (from my experience) who do BJJ are not like you. Okay I have finished, will pop on my dress and apron and will head back to the kitchen!!!!!!!

hahaha!! Wow you got me totally wrong! You need to understand what I am saying.

I have no problem with girls doing martial arts. Its great. What I meant is that it is better to have girls partner with girls in certain situations. It sort of is uncomfortable to just meet a girl and then have to partner with her. But if I knew her better and she was cool I would be a lot different. If there was no other option then I would gladly spar with her and I would know her enough to knwo she is cool and I would respect her. I would just have to change my attitude and think of her as strictly only a sparring partner. I think a lot of guys would take advantage of girls in these situations and then go talk to their buddies in the locker room and say crap like, "Yeaah man did you see Liz? She was sooo hot! She got me in her mount!! Ohh sweet baby!! WOOO!!" Guys like that piss me off.

And when I say a girl needs to be modest I meant outside of the gym. If she is a respectable person and does not act like a whore outside and try to be sexual with every guy friend she knows and she dresses modestly and doesnt try to come off as a sex object then it is easier for a man to have the attitude that I mentioned above. If a girl acts slutty like that a guy will have a hard time dealing with it because of how she treats him outside of class.
This is not talking about her gi and adjucting it every second.

And when i talked about a porn movie: One night I was watching cable TV and flipping through channels and there was this show on TV where people were grappeling and doing some kind of jui jitsu and I thought it was cool. It turns out that it was actually a cheap softcore porn movie on some channel like Oxygen or something. It was really weird and the girl enjoyed being roughed up and it was her fetish. What was odd is that the people practicing the martial arts actually seemed to know what they were doing, so they used actual martial artists. So that is why I said that. Anyway martial artists shouldnt make a joke out of their art like that and participate in movies like this.

Anyway im sorry if I came off as a sexist jerk. By the way I dont practice BJJ.

[jdolsenmau]

Now the original reason was to try and get this guy off you as he is most likely going to be punching your face in while you are mounted. Now would you be willing to commit one or even both you hands to try and grap the crotch. I doubt it as you will feel the full impact of the hits real fast. Also many people have been able to fight through groin pain as the intensity of the fight is on.
I stand by my original statement and fight a grappling school and take a few lessons.

[Tant01]

Is there any possible way that when the guy is mountaing you and you are on the bottom that you can take your hand or hands and grab his balls and violently yank and tear at them to get him off of you? That is before he grabs your wrists. I mean if the eye balls are to far away the sweets are still pretty close to grab.

Sure, anything is possible My thinking is this; If you get taken down, knocked down or just fall there and some guy is going to mount you for the pounding to follow you need to ecsape to a better position or have techniques that you can execute from THAT position. Reaching down for the "goodies" will leave your face and arms exposed to attack. Worse yet with your arms down there he can shift his weight higher on your chest and hold you down even better to apply that pounding. Same thing if you reach up for the eyes... Grappling is good, BJJ is the game to play.

Has anyone suggested "elbow escape" Put him in your gaurd or half gaurd (Torso or leg scissors) and when he tries to pass slap on an armbar or "triangle" choke! Fun, basic Jutsu.

[Andrew WA]

Now the original reason was to try and get this guy off you as he is most likely going to be punching your face in while you are mounted. Now would you be willing to commit one or even both you hands to try and grap the crotch. I doubt it as you will feel the full impact of the hits real fast. Also many people have been able to fight through groin pain as the intensity of the fight is on.

I agree with you that this could possibly happen. but I dont think that if you grab the goodies it will automatically cause you to get beat in the face. It depends on the situation. if the guy is punching you can also block and then counter with a grab and that will definately upset him to cause him to jerk. When he loses attention for just that moment then you are able to have a way to escape.

Dont just ignore the fact that it could possibly happen and possibly work. All though its best to work at it and get a better position then to just go and grab the groin. Also if the attacker is a woman it would not work as effectively but might make her uncomfortable enough.

[wardancer]

I agree with you that this could possibly happen. but I dont think that if you grab the goodies it will automatically cause you to get beat in the face. It depends on the situation. if the guy is punching you can also block and then counter with a grab and that will definately upset him to cause him to jerk. When he loses attention for just that moment then you are able to have a way to escape.

Dont just ignore the fact that it could possibly happen and possibly work. All though its best to work at it and get a better position then to just go and grab the groin. Also if the attacker is a woman it would not work as effectively but might make her uncomfortable enough.

Do you any proof of such theory?
Just talk talk as usual!
You might despise the Gracies and BJJ but they do the talk and back it up!
what about you?
Do you roll or fight MMA?

[Andrew WA]

Well if you lived near me I would spar you. It would be fun and a good learning experience. But of course no one is going to allow groin attacks.

Seriously sont talking so much crap about how BJJ is the best MA in the entire world and there is no possible techniques that can ever beat it. Its bullshido to talk that way.

BJJ is not unbeatable. You think sports combat fights are the only way to tell if an art is effective? Whatever.

[Tant01]

Do you any proof of such theory?
Just talk talk as usual!
You might despise the Gracies and BJJ but they do the talk and back it up!
what about you?
Do you roll or fight MMA?

Have you read the April issue of Grappling magazine?

Helio got another cover shot and was interviewed by Doug Jeffrey. In addition to promoting his new book and taking credit for inventing the techniques that are BJJ and developing the training methods himself he claims his book has the "true" history of BJJ.

Read this excerpt and then tell us he's not a deluded old fart...

"If someone points a gun at you, of course, you will be scared. But jiu-jutsu gives me the equivalent of a bullet proof shield. It protects me from head to toe, plus it gives me the ability to take a gun away."

Helio Gracie.


I like GJJ/BJJ because it's JUDO...Not because anyone with a red belt and "Grand Master" title says it's bullet proof...


He's one of the last of the old school Judoka and worthy of respect for preserving pre war Judo but he's still funny...rewriting history to make himself the Brazilian "Kano".

[Ronson]

"BJJ is not unbeatable. You think sports combat fights are the only way to tell if an art is effective? Whatever."

True BJJ is not unbeatable, but a friggin' bitch to beat. You've got to have some skills to take out a competant BJJ fighter.

Sport combat fights is the closest thing we have to an objective and critical view as to what is effective in empty-hand, one-on-one combat. Yeah, it's not the street (whatever the hell that means), but show me verifiable, objective evidence of an art being effective against multiples and weapons. So far it's all conjecture and hearsay.