Royce ANNIHILATED

[jubaji]

LOL

Here we go!

Your confidence is escaping you...you are starting to experience insecurity...it may be too late...!

[blitz]

Yes yes close the topic 3 days of picking on the mma crowd is too much!! back to bashing the TMA's.

Knew you would say that.. Now I wonder who told I love seeing TMAs being bashed. That is just as annoying, especially because it has been done for forever.

[SamuraiGuy]

[QUOTE=rev.jc]I want to commend the guy who stated yes wrestling is as good as bjj, hey bjj guys how many of you spend 12 plus hours a week in the gym at least, in addition to doing strength training and cardio work,

[QUOTE]

Me, I was training 15 hours of BJJ a week, plus MMA, plus striking, plus cardio.

Wrestlers arent the only people with work ethic and hard training you know.

Just because BJJ guys can be fat and slovenly and STILL tap pure wrestlers with ease... well.. dont get mad....

Btw, before you go and flame me all to shit, I dont hate wrestling, I knew/vocally stated my opinion that Hughes would maul gracie, I'm glad he did... I appreciate wrestling, I think its the best base for MMA. For grappling, BJJ all the way.

[Troll Virus]

IMHO most of you have it all wrong. Gracie did take a beating, but by submission wrestling (Gracie Ju-jitsu!) Hughes nor any of the fight at UFC 60 were won by anything other than Gracie Ju-jitsu (I understand the Gracie are not the only ones who have submission wrestling, but they definitely brought it back from being about extinct w/ the UFC’s). There whole point in UFC 1 was with proper technique a smaller opponent could bet a larger opponent by grappling. Hughes’s arms were three times the size of Gracie’s (as are all the modern day UFC fighters) and Hughes was using the techniques form the Gracie books/videos. Eventually, he’s going to get beat by a superior athlete, but not by any other technique than his own. The Gracie’s should be damn proud.

Royce Gracie is still a legend. Maybe in his own time, but a legend.

I can’t take anything away from Hughes. He demonstrated fantastic skills and you have to give him credit as a great sportsman by not breaking Gracie’s arm. He could have.

I have to disagree with all of you that he needs more MMA training. He did things he’s never done before costing him. 1) He pushed away from the clinch for an elbow strike. A big no no of Gracie Jujitsu. 2) He let Hughes get to his back twice. Rule No. 1 of Gracie Jujitsu. 3) When Gracie was in the half guard his legs were just flapping around limp and not defending the mount.

I have done Ed Parker’s Kenpo Karate, Shotokan Karate, Wata Ryu Karate, Goju Ryu Karate, Wing Chung, Serrada Escrima, Arnis and Gracie Jujitsu. My Wing Chun instructor Phillip Holder always said, “you can be a master of one or a jack of all trades and a master of non”. I have become a master of non. Not great at any. Gracie has be doing lots of cross training for the fight (Thaiboxing etc.). It cost him. He’s lost his strategy.

Gracie always had a strategy. He had non. I actually thought the fight would be like an uneventful super bowl with Hughes the successor because a lack a Gracie doing anything but protecting himself.

My last comment about the fight is that there was no fire in Gracie’s eyes. I can’t pin point it but something was wrong, maybe he lost his mojo. Hopefully, he didn’t lose it like Mike Tyson because I’d like to see him fight again another day because he’s a legend like his father and should be in martial arts history forever.

Some points I agree and disagree with you on, but all in, I think the sentiment is true enough.
Royce the man deserves a little more respect for what he's acheived, and the number of times he's stepped up to the plate.
He's won a fair bit more than he's lost, and generally shown ethical integrity.
By nature of what he's acheived by action, he has altered a vast number of peoples opinions about the ground game.

Wtf has Hughes done by comparison?

[Tom Yum]

Go Matt : D

....Blake?

[J-Luck]

IMHO most of you have it all wrong. Gracie did take a beating, but by submission wrestling (Gracie Ju-jitsu!) Hughes nor any of the fight at UFC 60 were won by anything other than Gracie Ju-jitsu (I understand the Gracie are not the only ones who have submission wrestling, but they definitely brought it back from being about extinct w/ the UFC’s). There whole point in UFC 1 was with proper technique a smaller opponent could bet a larger opponent by grappling. Hughes’s arms were three times the size of Gracie’s (as are all the modern day UFC fighters) and Hughes was using the techniques form the Gracie books/videos. Eventually, he’s going to get beat by a superior athlete, but not by any other technique than his own. The Gracie’s should be damn proud.

Royce Gracie is still a legend. Maybe in his own time, but a legend.

I can’t take anything away from Hughes. He demonstrated fantastic skills and you have to give him credit as a great sportsman by not breaking Gracie’s arm. He could have.

I have to disagree with all of you that he needs more MMA training. He did things he’s never done before costing him. 1) He pushed away from the clinch for an elbow strike. A big no no of Gracie Jujitsu. 2) He let Hughes get to his back twice. Rule No. 1 of Gracie Jujitsu. 3) When Gracie was in the half guard his legs were just flapping around limp and not defending the mount.

I have done Ed Parker’s Kenpo Karate, Shotokan Karate, Wata Ryu Karate, Goju Ryu Karate, Wing Chung, Serrada Escrima, Arnis and Gracie Jujitsu. My Wing Chun instructor Phillip Holder always said, “you can be a master of one or a jack of all trades and a master of non”. I have become a master of non. Not great at any. Gracie has be doing lots of cross training for the fight (Thaiboxing etc.). It cost him. He’s lost his strategy.

Gracie always had a strategy. He had non. I actually thought the fight would be like an uneventful super bowl with Hughes the successor because a lack a Gracie doing anything but protecting himself.

My last comment about the fight is that there was no fire in Gracie’s eyes. I can’t pin point it but something was wrong, maybe he lost his mojo. Hopefully, he didn’t lose it like Mike Tyson because I’d like to see him fight again another day because he’s a legend like his father and should be in martial arts history forever.

Wait, alot of us agreed with you lol, did you read the thread?

[J-Luck]

Originally Posted by J-Luck
I belive BJJ is far inferior to wrestling. .





that is funny, you should how many wrestlers come into BJJ and tap out in seconds, its completely inferior to BJJ, it has like 4 submissions and wins by a judge tapping the mat LOL

Wait, I said it's inferior. Doesn't mean wrestlers won't consitently lose, but it's DEFINTLY inferior. As far as subs... yea, the bjj can get dominated totally and still pull out a sub, no one agued that homoplata. But, as far as leverage(exluding subs), body manipulation(again excluding subs, you might ask what other body manip. is there, how bout pins?), training ethic(generalising, but it's a diff. in the culture of BJJ as a whole vs culture of wrestling as a whole), and balance. If I can think of more I'll let you know. Oh, probably mat time too, but that can't really be proven, and it's got too many variables, though I think as a highly generalised statement its got SOMETHING to it.

[J-Luck]

[QUOTE=SamuraiGuy][QUOTE=rev.jc]I want to commend the guy who stated yes wrestling is as good as bjj, hey bjj guys how many of you spend 12 plus hours a week in the gym at least, in addition to doing strength training and cardio work,

Me, I was training 15 hours of BJJ a week, plus MMA, plus striking, plus cardio.

Wrestlers arent the only people with work ethic and hard training you know.

Just because BJJ guys can be fat and slovenly and STILL tap pure wrestlers with ease... well.. dont get mad....

Btw, before you go and flame me all to shit, I dont hate wrestling, I knew/vocally stated my opinion that Hughes would maul gracie, I'm glad he did... I appreciate wrestling, I think its the best base for MMA. For grappling, BJJ all the way.

As far as this, it was too generalized, my last post addressed this. As far as grappling, bjj only has subs on wrestling. Give a wrestler a couple subs, all of a sudden you dont tap them with ease, instead they maul you. (aka Matt Hughes, Dan Severn, Randy Coutoure.). I find just in my bjj class though, picking up the subs were easy, I can actually control guys bodies who were doing this for over a year. I'm only a two year wrestler(meaning 6 months), didicated, but still, only a two year wrestler(again, two three month seasons). I'm not saying I tap them, but they told me a couple things after my second class and all of a sudden it just seemed like wrestling with a twist. I've only had 6-7 classes(i gotta get back) but I didnt have any trouble. I've wrestled witha kid there who wrestled and was supposedly good, and has won some tourney in bjj, and when i wrestled him(wrestling rules) I didnt think the skills from bjj transferred at all. And he's supposedly one of the examples there why bjj transfers... wasnt impressed at all.

[J-Luck]

HomoPlata

Make sure you read my post on page 12.

[OmaPlata]

wrestlers get spanked when they come into BJJ studios, happens almost every day, they get tapped in seconds, its a joke, they go for a guillitine right off the bat and then some dumb wrist lock and then they tap faster than a buddy rich drum solo. they have a good base, but thats it.

[jubaji]

Dude, you're embarrassing yourself.

[OmaPlata]

Dude, you're embarrassing yourself.

who are you aiming your post at? I base my posts off empirical knowledge, that pretty much tells me it wasnt intended for me so wonder who it was? prolly Boar runnin his trap again

[jubaji]

who are you aiming your post at?

...........you, sorry.

[SamuraiGuy]

As far as this, it was too generalized, my last post addressed this. As far as grappling, bjj only has subs on wrestling. Give a wrestler a couple subs, all of a sudden you dont tap them with ease, instead they maul you. (aka Matt Hughes, Dan Severn, Randy Coutoure.). I find just in my bjj class though, picking up the subs were easy, I can actually control guys bodies who were doing this for over a year. I'm only a two year wrestler(meaning 6 months), didicated, but still, only a two year wrestler(again, two three month seasons). I'm not saying I tap them, but they told me a couple things after my second class and all of a sudden it just seemed like wrestling with a twist. I've only had 6-7 classes(i gotta get back) but I didnt have any trouble. I've wrestled witha kid there who wrestled and was supposedly good, and has won some tourney in bjj, and when i wrestled him(wrestling rules) I didnt think the skills from bjj transferred at all. And he's supposedly one of the examples there why bjj transfers... wasnt impressed at all.[/QUOTE]

Only submissions eh, I'd love to see your gaurd work, got all the subtle hip movement down, leg action, breaking of the grips, breaking posture. How's your rear mount defenses, you can fight out of hooks well, defend the neck, defend the arms, stay on the non choking side, how are your mount defenses... rolling over into rear mount is not a mount defense by the way.

How crisp are your submissions, sure you know what an armbar is, can you DO an armbar though?

What about triangle set ups.. you know what a triangle is, and if you ever get a guy with one arm in, one arm out, you can pull of an ugly one. How bout triangles from closed gaurd, open gaurd?, Spider gaurd? How bout adjusting your hips to sink the choke deeper after you get the triangle?... Whats your way of defending when they try to stack you?, Whats your way of defending when they try to slam you...

How bout Omoplata's, you seem to think very little of Omoplata (the user) here, how's your Omoplata game, do you use it for sweeps or submissions, do you prefer to keep them from escaping by controlling the body or the leg?
Figure four legs or open? How about your omoplata escapes, you've got those down? How bout your armbar escapes, triangle escapes? Kimura escapes.

Shit you learned the submissions, you dont need any of that...

[J-Luck]

wrestlers get spanked when they come into BJJ studios, happens almost every day, they get tapped in seconds, its a joke, they go for a guillitine right off the bat and then some dumb wrist lock and then they tap faster than a buddy rich drum solo. they have a good base, but thats it.

My post deleted...