Royce ANNIHILATED

[J-Luck]

That doesnt make any sense, cuz a wrestler of 1 year and a BJJ guy of 1 year switch for 1 year each while still doing the other, the BJJ is going to be a blue belt at least and the wrestler might not even make it to blue by then, if he does, he cant catch up in time
I will agree it is better to start BJJ having a solid wrestling base in some ways, but in others it can hurt your BJJ game, but might be OK in MMA

Naaaa... becuase wrelsting is the more complete grappling art, as I have backed up(and you haven't backed up your point).

[J-Luck]

J-Luck, you adressed the rear mount defense, I'll give you that.. and you adressed triangles, basically saying you had trouble with them.

You said your gaurd work was good, you have no idea, I used to think mine was good, in 3 months I'll say, man my gaurd work was shit, so many things come into play in building such a solid gaurd, you have no idea, and having no idea isnt a bad thing, as you get better it just makes you want to learn more, I'm sure its the same thing with things in wrestling.

You say no one can pass your gaurd? Well thats great, but what are you doing, holding a closed gaurd? If no one can pass thats great, but only if you are playing open gaurd (just normal open gaurd) or one of the other special open gaurds, constantly attempting sweeps and submissions and not getting caught, then not getting your gaurd passed means something.

How bout all the omoplata's and that.. you didnt comment on any of the sub defenses, or using sub's to set things up, do you chain your submissions? Are you getting your submissions by doing an armbar, or are you getting your triangle chokes by doing an armbar?

And most importantly do you flow with the go? (haha)

Didn't I already say I worked sub's from the guard? I'm not a fish lol. I'm not saying my guard is great, but as compared to other white belts with far more matt time than me... I think I'm doing much better. And yes, I like to sweep(as I HATE being on my back, but I like to work arm bars in there also). As far as omoplatas... I think my instructor went over those with me one class. They are the shoulder locks where you use your legs right? The best way I can think to describe it is sitting on their shoulder? Or maybe, locking the shoulder with the legs? I'm not exactly sure how to describe it, and I'm probably thinking of something wrong anyway.

As far as set ups... that's another thing I like about having wrestling experience. It's all fakes and set ups. I pretended to go for a kimura inside a guys guard before(don't know if you're actually supposed to do it) and he got nervous and I pulled his leg down by the gi and passed to side control and actually went for the Kimura and it worked. Armbars are cool, but I only know a few ways to get them, from knee on belly, if they turn into me from rearmount(arm up in the air), from guard, and really, that's it. Like I said, I have less than 12 hours experience alltogether... so I'm not qualified to speak. It's definilty interesting and I would like to pracice it permanently. I need to find another place where I can just practice with people and drill moves(we only have limited hours).

[SamuraiGuy]

Naaaa... becuase wrelsting is the more complete grappling art, as I have backed up(and you haven't backed up your point).

We will use your shining example of Royce Gracie getting owned to prove this point wrong....

Wrestling is more complete?

Okay, Royce vs Dan Severn.... BIG, BIG wrestler, against tiny bjj guy, wrestling sure is better.

How bout the best Submission grappling in the world ( would be unfair to compare with a gi)

Looks like its BJJ guys winning that all the time, Jacare Souza, Marcelo Garcia, Royler Gracie, Leo Viera....

But I guess the wrestlers must not compete, Submission wrestling is below their complete art.

Also in your other post, you are thinking of the omoplata with the legs controlling the shoulder.

Also, your trying to kimura someone from in their gaurd? Where do you train? Thats a horrible way to pass, to get the kimura grip while in someones gaurd you have to lose all your posture, and you open yourself up to so much. No wonder you think your gaurd is good, the others must be horrible.

[OmaPlata]

We saw Dean Lister , BJJ is alive and well. Hughes got killed by a young BJJ guy named Penn. Penn was the champion and still is far as Im concerned,.
as far as Royce he totally got worked and did nothing more than a white belt, its not that hughes did anything great, Royce must have had something wrong with him, anyone knows he should have had more game than that

[OmaPlata]

Naaaa... becuase wrelsting is the more complete grappling art, as I have backed up(and you haven't backed up your point).

funny, wrestling didnt ever win the UFC until years later, and the best wrestler ever, Dan Severn, who outweighed Royce by 100lbs, got SCHOOLED and humilated by a BJJ guy, that really proves which is better right there.......100 pound disadvantage and he still wins LOL. i think ill take wrestling so a 1st grader who takes BJJ can beat me LOOLOLOLOLL

[SamuraiGuy]

We saw Dean Lister , BJJ is alive and well. Hughes got killed by a young BJJ guy named Penn. Penn was the champion and still is far as Im concerned,.
as far as Royce he totally got worked and did nothing more than a white belt, its not that hughes did anything great, Royce must have had something wrong with him, anyone knows he should have had more game than that

Correction, George St. Pierre is the champion following your logic... oh wait.. no its Matt Hughes, GSP lost to him... oh well. Hughes or GSP doesnt matter, Penn aint getting anywhere near the thing again.

[jubaji]

that really proves which is better right there.......

dude, you are making a fool of yourself.

[OmaPlata]

dude, you are making a fool of yourself.

yeah and all those wrestlers win in ADCC , lol, that argument posted above PROVES WRESTLERS CANNOT HANG WITH BJJ GUYS, PERIOD. you are the fool. Take a wrestler into the abu dahbi and see how well they do LMAO

[jubaji]

*German accent*

Can you see this? 'Cause I'm doing it as hard as I can....

[J-Luck]

funny, wrestling didnt ever win the UFC until years later, and the best wrestler ever, Dan Severn, who outweighed Royce by 100lbs, got SCHOOLED and humilated by a BJJ guy, that really proves which is better right there.......100 pound disadvantage and he still wins LOL. i think ill take wrestling so a 1st grader who takes BJJ can beat me LOOLOLOLOLL

You must be stupider than I thought(and I thought you were stupid). Severn was outa shape and much slower. Besides that, he handeled Royce untill he was submitted. The only problem was, he wasn't introduced into submissions. Give Severn some training(like now) and see how he's won the MAJORITY(57%) of his fights by submission. That's outa 68. He's a Judo and Sambo black belt, in case you were wondering where he got subs from. And at 50, he's beating guys lol, he's not even close to his prime.

I merely said it was more complete. Put a bjj guy into a wrestling match. He will lose much worse than a wrestler at a bjj studio. Wrestling is the more complete art, sure it's lackin in one area, but I think cross-training would solve this...

[J-Luck]

A first grader would beat you either way.

[J-Luck]

yeah and all those wrestlers win in ADCC , lol, that argument posted above PROVES WRESTLERS CANNOT HANG WITH BJJ GUYS, PERIOD. you are the fool. Take a wrestler into the abu dahbi and see how well they do LMAO

Well, take a bjj guy to the NCAA champs... he'll not last more than a second. This type of reasoning is definitly flawed.

[J-Luck]

funny, wrestling didnt ever win the UFC until years later, and the best wrestler ever, Dan Severn, who outweighed Royce by 100lbs, got SCHOOLED and humilated by a BJJ guy, that really proves which is better right there.......100 pound disadvantage and he still wins LOL. i think ill take wrestling so a 1st grader who takes BJJ can beat me LOOLOLOLOLL

That's because wrestling was well known to BJJ practicioners, not the other way around, once the system was mainstream, wrestlers incorporated some subs, sub defenses, and pounded dudes out from the guard

[J-Luck]

We will use your shining example of Royce Gracie getting owned to prove this point wrong....

Wrestling is more complete?

Okay, Royce vs Dan Severn.... BIG, BIG wrestler, against tiny bjj guy, wrestling sure is better.

How bout the best Submission grappling in the world ( would be unfair to compare with a gi)

Looks like its BJJ guys winning that all the time, Jacare Souza, Marcelo Garcia, Royler Gracie, Leo Viera....

But I guess the wrestlers must not compete, Submission wrestling is below their complete art.

Also in your other post, you are thinking of the omoplata with the legs controlling the shoulder.

Also, your trying to kimura someone from in their gaurd? Where do you train? Thats a horrible way to pass, to get the kimura grip while in someones gaurd you have to lose all your posture, and you open yourself up to so much. No wonder you think your gaurd is good, the others must be horrible.

Wait you never said sub wrestling, which heavily incorporartes wrestling(it being the more complete grappling art). Bjj guys beat wrestlers with litte experience in subs... they are a big part. I'm just saying, all things considered, bjj is definitly inferior. The wrestlers who learn subs are dominant in submissions. I think sub grappling tournaments prove that. Their wrestling base allows them to get waaaaay ahead, and quickly.

No actually lol... the place I train is highly reccommennded. The move I'm talking about is on bjj.org or was... so hmmm... belive guy on internet or bjj.org who says kimura from guard is ok.... I KNOW WHO TO BELIVE! (aint hard to figure out).

My gaurd, for a white belt with 6 classes is good, in comparison to other white belts who have been there for however long they've been there. I didn't say I think it's "good", just good for a whitebelt. Which shouldn't be so right?

[OmaPlata]

Well, take a bjj guy to the NCAA champs... he'll not last more than a second. This type of reasoning is definitly flawed.

How? THe wrestler will get submitted if we send BJJ black belts there, but they dont allow submissions, so the whole wrestler non sense for a MMA art is pretty much 100 times as worthless as BJJ is in MMA