Working out with the ladies.-No it's dirty.

[treelizard]

It's interesting that the few times I've seen training with women get a little weird is when a guy accidentally grabs, brushes against, or touches a breast or the crotch area in the course of training, then suddenly jumps back flustered and apologizes profusely drawing attention the the fact. It's better to just ignore and continue training through....as long as it's not blatant touching that is.

One of the first times I rolled the coach said "you are grappling with a man. be aware that you may get touched by accident." then he turned to the guy and said "make sure it's an accident!" lol

[DickHardman]

yeah, being really honest i think its good for women to learn to defend themselves but the reality is that the average guy will just smash a woman to bits, you know when a guy is really trying to take their head off, chances are the training is going to make little difference as women just dont have the strength. i know that might seem sexist but its the truth.
women get into a false sense of security through martial arts sometimes. the idea of a man hitting a woman with the same force as the hit a guy wont ultimately work.

its true ghost. im not trying to be sexist either, its just the truth. there are women who have been training way longer than me at my gym, and i wouldnt even need to use MA to beat them, i could just strength to overpower them if i wanted to. the difference between males and females is really large, thats why males are usually the ones who are the protector and whatnot. most martial arts really arent going to help women fight off a male attacker in SD situation unless she is armed with a weapon or her level of training is so high that it compensates for the large difference in strength and aggression. even in jiu jitsu, ive rolled with females who have much higher rank than me, and even then i had to tone everything down so much. i basically have to flow train with them while they are going like 100% its just the truth, men and women are physically built different.

i get partnered up with women all the time, there is simply no way that i can personally use the same amount of force on them as i do males around my own size. its ludicrous to even think of doing that. i do my best to push my female partners hard without injuring them, but theres simply no way i can hit them like i would a guy. it would either injure the women, get my ass kicked by other guys who didnt like seeing me hit a women that hard, and the chick would probably not want to continue sparring with me. ive had a few chicks get really mad at me for hitting them hard, even though they acted like they wanted to go all out and hit as hard as they possibly could.

its true that martial arts develop a false sense of security in women. if a woman is truly worried about SD, carrying effective weapons, being aware and alert, and buying a big guard dog are probably her best option.

[matbla]

can you belive this

[DickHardman]

garland, you sound like more of a feminist than any of the bloated, smelly dikes ive had the misfortune of rolling with.

[DickHardman]

plus, i dont mind training with all women. grappling with petite hot chicks is way cool. ive rolled with a couple hotties, and i basically just laid there and let them crawl all over me and it was pretty cool. im not a bad guy.

[Ghost]

no I can't. I think Dick and Ghost are being fucking stupid.

When training with women, train the same way you do with men.
Neither one of you has ever trained with a real female fighter? Maybe the chicks you train with got confused and thought they were in for Tae Bo, but I know women that like to fucking hurt people. I have $100 bucks that I can find a girl who could kick the shit out of you, Dick. In a real life situation...like a bar fight...I know maybe 10 girls that would have you curled up in fetal position while stomping the shit out of you. (girls with shaved heads, chelsea cuts, and tattoos who would chew you up and spit you out in between pints of Jack Daniels). In a ring fight, the number is less...but that's simply because women don't train (or at least not up to their potential) because douche's like you don't take them seriously.

those types dont exactly embody the average female trainee, but yes i have, i train at the very highest level in thai boxing and live in thailand training and fighting.

i do take women training very seriously, i think they should and can train, there is a difference between women fighting in the ring and women fighting in the street, ring yes, street....perhaps.

[Ghost]

I used to train with a few girls that were tough as nails. Ali Casey used to leave fucking welts and bruises on my ribs when we sparred just as bad as any of the men, including some a guy that used to fight at Lumpinee.

there are tough women out there, one girl i knew was a bouncer at a club in london and 12 stone, could handle herself ok, however this isnt the point, we are talking about the other 95%+ out there, they can learn to fight, but what me and dick are saying is the point at which you try to kill them, then what. although they may hurt you in sparring what would be the realistic situation if you were trying to literally kill them.

[DickHardman]

I used to train with a few girls that were tough as nails. Ali Casey used to leave fucking welts and bruises on my ribs when we sparred just as bad as any of the men, including some a guy that used to fight at Lumpinee.

thats only cause you are so weak and out of shape. me and ghost have better physiques than a 13 year old prepubescent boy lol..

[Ghost]

yes but women cannot produce the same force as men, they are weaker, thats a scientific fact.

[Little Apple]

OK, I have 2 cents to put in on this one:

Cent # 1) I like to think I'm a pretty tough cookie, I once took a knee that sent me flying through the air and into a wall that was at least 3-4 meters away, and it made me laugh. But I am 110lbs, and I need, yes, NEED the guys who drastically out-mass me to take it easy while I'm learning. My training partners over the summer were always men, and they were always at least 50% bigger than me. If they didn't cut me some slack, then I spent weeks just getting kicked to crap, and thrown around like a rag doll. It is the honest truth that if two people are equally skilled, the bigger one wins. But think of sparring a smaller man: If you could find a man who was 110, how would you spar with him? That's how I like guys to spar with me. Please remember that you don't honestly Fight every time you Spar. You people seem to think that you either have to treat your female training partners like delicate flowers, or batter and crush them every time you roll. "Happy medium" people.

Cent # 2) If you beat on every woman who comes in to your gym you will loose a lot of female students. They're not used to it, they don't like it, and they will get angry and frustrated and leave. Maybe that's OK with you, maybe you don't want any student there who isn't ready to take a beating. But that's the way most women are. Most women don't know they're that way, they will tell you they can take it, or that they don't care about rolling with men. But when it happens that they get paired with a guy, or they get hit harder than they are used to: they raise a fuss. It happens.

That's the 2 cents of a female martial artist who's not a sissy or a dike.

So just run your gym and your sparring however you see fit I guess. Play to the fighters, or try to include everyone. It just depends on what you're gym's about. I've appreciated guys who take it easy so I can work technique, and I've appreciated guys who aren't afraid to go hard-core.

And Dick, that was gross. There's nothing worse than a man who's getting ideas when you're just trying to train. Back to my original comments on this thread: No matter how you train, I appreciate a gentleman.

[Ghost]

yeah im fully for women fighting in the ring/competitively etc and as far as possible there should be no differences made for women, everyone in the gym is treated the same.
a women at 110lbs and a man at the same weight, the man will be stronger, again thats science, can the woman fight this guy, probably not but there is a possibility.

As much as i am for women training in the gym, training with a woman is a complete waste of time for me, id only do it (and i do) for their benefit.

As with any other student you have to take things gradually and build it up. Id personally be more than happy to teach any woman or man that wants to learn, if a woman asks me if she can defend herself with it, id say youll do a better job than otherwise and against some guys yes, but ultimately no. unless using a weapon as dick pointed out, which is really where womens self defence should be if you are lookin purely at self defence. if you want to do martial art cos you like it or to compete then fine, do whatever you like INITTTTTTTTT

[William]

of course you would want to train them the same, but if you look at your past sparring i expect youve hit guy friends harder than you have lady ones.

That may be true...to a point. But I could say the same thing about some guys who come into the program. There's very few people I would crank full bore just coming in off the street. I prefer to push people just above their abilities in an effort to get them to work harder then they have before, but not totally demoralize them by smacking them down completley. In other words keep it just above their threshold. Turn it into a building process and get them used to harder and harder pressure/contact.



William

[William]

unless using a weapon as dick pointed out, which is really where womens self defence should be if you are lookin purely at self defence. if you want to do martial art cos you like it or to compete then fine, do whatever you like INITTTTTTTTT

Which is what I touched on in my first post.



William

[Ghost]

Which is what I touched on in my first post.



William

yes, and as william pointed out as well.

[treelizard]

I just remember about a month ago when I went up against a new guy and was really crushing him (yes, I was fairly light) and he was like "But I made you work for it, didn't I? You had to work hard, right?" I also accidentally asked him if he was okay at one point, forgetting that saying that is like the worst thing you can do. I quickly started backpedalling ("I mean, uh, because that other guy really worked you...") You go easier on new guys, on people that are smaller, maybe on untrained women but if they are highly trained you go to easy on them and then you'll get all confused when they tap you out.

One time I got to class about ten minutes late and my coach at the time asked this guy to take me through the drills. I did about ten of each (I was new) and then the guy just stopped. Our coach at the time (who definitely had people go easier on me and the other chick) was pissed. He said he counted five and twenty and I needed to do fifty and fifty and that guy better be helping me. Just because someone is new or small or female (or all three) doesn't mean they aren't there to work hard. Oh, and not all chicks that train BJJ want to be like a guy. I just think it's fun. And lots and lots of women who train and fight are downright girly. Fuckin' stereotypes.

What else...William I like your sig quote, and Garland, my money's on whichever chick you can get to kick the shit out of DickH.

That may be true...to a point. But I could say the same thing about some guys who come into the program. There's very few people I would crank full bore just coming in off the street. I prefer to push people just above their abilities in an effort to get them to work harder then they have before, but not totally demoralize them by smacking them down completley. In other words keep it just above their threshold. Turn it into a building process and get them used to harder and harder pressure/contact.



William