Working out with the ladies.-No it's dirty.

[Garland]

thats only cause you are so weak and out of shape. me and ghost have better physiques than a 13 year old prepubescent boy lol..

What's that, dick? You're ovaries are aching? take a midol and settle down. c-twat.

[Ghost]

yes but women cannot produce the same force as men, they are weaker, thats a scientific fact.

[Little Apple]

OK, I have 2 cents to put in on this one:

Cent # 1) I like to think I'm a pretty tough cookie, I once took a knee that sent me flying through the air and into a wall that was at least 3-4 meters away, and it made me laugh. But I am 110lbs, and I need, yes, NEED the guys who drastically out-mass me to take it easy while I'm learning. My training partners over the summer were always men, and they were always at least 50% bigger than me. If they didn't cut me some slack, then I spent weeks just getting kicked to crap, and thrown around like a rag doll. It is the honest truth that if two people are equally skilled, the bigger one wins. But think of sparring a smaller man: If you could find a man who was 110, how would you spar with him? That's how I like guys to spar with me. Please remember that you don't honestly Fight every time you Spar. You people seem to think that you either have to treat your female training partners like delicate flowers, or batter and crush them every time you roll. "Happy medium" people.

Cent # 2) If you beat on every woman who comes in to your gym you will loose a lot of female students. They're not used to it, they don't like it, and they will get angry and frustrated and leave. Maybe that's OK with you, maybe you don't want any student there who isn't ready to take a beating. But that's the way most women are. Most women don't know they're that way, they will tell you they can take it, or that they don't care about rolling with men. But when it happens that they get paired with a guy, or they get hit harder than they are used to: they raise a fuss. It happens.

That's the 2 cents of a female martial artist who's not a sissy or a dike.

So just run your gym and your sparring however you see fit I guess. Play to the fighters, or try to include everyone. It just depends on what you're gym's about. I've appreciated guys who take it easy so I can work technique, and I've appreciated guys who aren't afraid to go hard-core.

And Dick, that was gross. There's nothing worse than a man who's getting ideas when you're just trying to train. Back to my original comments on this thread: No matter how you train, I appreciate a gentleman.

[Ghost]

yeah im fully for women fighting in the ring/competitively etc and as far as possible there should be no differences made for women, everyone in the gym is treated the same.
a women at 110lbs and a man at the same weight, the man will be stronger, again thats science, can the woman fight this guy, probably not but there is a possibility.

As much as i am for women training in the gym, training with a woman is a complete waste of time for me, id only do it (and i do) for their benefit.

As with any other student you have to take things gradually and build it up. Id personally be more than happy to teach any woman or man that wants to learn, if a woman asks me if she can defend herself with it, id say youll do a better job than otherwise and against some guys yes, but ultimately no. unless using a weapon as dick pointed out, which is really where womens self defence should be if you are lookin purely at self defence. if you want to do martial art cos you like it or to compete then fine, do whatever you like INITTTTTTTTT

[William]

of course you would want to train them the same, but if you look at your past sparring i expect youve hit guy friends harder than you have lady ones.

That may be true...to a point. But I could say the same thing about some guys who come into the program. There's very few people I would crank full bore just coming in off the street. I prefer to push people just above their abilities in an effort to get them to work harder then they have before, but not totally demoralize them by smacking them down completley. In other words keep it just above their threshold. Turn it into a building process and get them used to harder and harder pressure/contact.



William

[William]

unless using a weapon as dick pointed out, which is really where womens self defence should be if you are lookin purely at self defence. if you want to do martial art cos you like it or to compete then fine, do whatever you like INITTTTTTTTT

Which is what I touched on in my first post.



William

[Ghost]

Which is what I touched on in my first post.



William

yes, and as william pointed out as well.

[treelizard]

I just remember about a month ago when I went up against a new guy and was really crushing him (yes, I was fairly light) and he was like "But I made you work for it, didn't I? You had to work hard, right?" I also accidentally asked him if he was okay at one point, forgetting that saying that is like the worst thing you can do. I quickly started backpedalling ("I mean, uh, because that other guy really worked you...") You go easier on new guys, on people that are smaller, maybe on untrained women but if they are highly trained you go to easy on them and then you'll get all confused when they tap you out.

One time I got to class about ten minutes late and my coach at the time asked this guy to take me through the drills. I did about ten of each (I was new) and then the guy just stopped. Our coach at the time (who definitely had people go easier on me and the other chick) was pissed. He said he counted five and twenty and I needed to do fifty and fifty and that guy better be helping me. Just because someone is new or small or female (or all three) doesn't mean they aren't there to work hard. Oh, and not all chicks that train BJJ want to be like a guy. I just think it's fun. And lots and lots of women who train and fight are downright girly. Fuckin' stereotypes.

What else...William I like your sig quote, and Garland, my money's on whichever chick you can get to kick the shit out of DickH.

That may be true...to a point. But I could say the same thing about some guys who come into the program. There's very few people I would crank full bore just coming in off the street. I prefer to push people just above their abilities in an effort to get them to work harder then they have before, but not totally demoralize them by smacking them down completley. In other words keep it just above their threshold. Turn it into a building process and get them used to harder and harder pressure/contact.



William

[Ghost]

I just remember about a month ago when I went up against a new guy and was really crushing him (yes, I was fairly light) and he was like "But I made you work for it, didn't I? You had to work hard, right?" I also accidentally asked him if he was okay at one point, forgetting that saying that is like the worst thing you can do. I quickly started backpedalling ("I mean, uh, because that other guy really worked you...") You go easier on new guys, on people that are smaller, maybe on untrained women but if they are highly trained you go to easy on them and then you'll get all confused when they tap you out.

One time I got to class about ten minutes late and my coach at the time asked this guy to take me through the drills. I did about ten of each (I was new) and then the guy just stopped. Our coach at the time (who definitely had people go easier on me and the other chick) was pissed. He said he counted five and twenty and I needed to do fifty and fifty and that guy better be helping me. Just because someone is new or small or female (or all three) doesn't mean they aren't there to work hard. Oh, and not all chicks that train BJJ want to be like a guy. I just think it's fun. And lots and lots of women who train and fight are downright girly. Fuckin' stereotypes.

What else...William I like your sig quote, and Garland, my money's on whichever chick you can get to kick the shit out of DickH.

this is the typical martial arts mistake though, you were going against a guy in a controlled environment, he was new and wanting to be in the beginner category, he was effectively in a groups territory he didnt belong to.
if you broke into his house and threatened his family id expect you would die.

[Little Apple]

OK, hold on. First: Ghost, you don't know her, you shouldn't assume things. Second: you're right, a 110 guy will be stronger than me, but again- Sparring isn't Fighting.

People get all hung up on the whole "girls are smaller and weaker, blah blah blah, and you can't argue because it's a Fact!" Chill.

The reason you can have a class with 20 people in it, is that a class isn't the ring. A class isn't your house in the middle of the night, with the other 19 people individually trying to break into it. It's a place where people come to work hard, and learn stuff. The greater variation between your training partners, the higher your skill level will be. I think it's good for people to spar outside of their category sometimes.

And if you're with someone little- work your technique; make it a point not to just bulldoze them. Maybe then you'll be able to get more from your class, instead of working with them "just for their benefit" because they're so much weaker that it's "useless" for you.

[DickHardman]

no offense, but female martial artists are usually pretty wack.

and 95% of martial arts is just posturing for others.

[Ghost]

OK, hold on. First: Ghost, you don't know her, you shouldn't assume things. Second: you're right, a 110 guy will be stronger than me, but again- Sparring isn't Fighting.

People get all hung up on the whole "girls are smaller and weaker, blah blah blah, and you can't argue because it's a Fact!" Chill.

The reason you can have a class with 20 people in it, is that a class isn't the ring. A class isn't your house in the middle of the night, with the other 19 people individually trying to break into it. It's a place where people come to work hard, and learn stuff. The greater variation between your training partners, the higher your skill level will be. I think it's good for people to spar outside of their category sometimes.

And if you're with someone little- work your technique; make it a point not to just bulldoze them. Maybe then you'll be able to get more from your class, instead of working with them "just for their benefit" because they're so much weaker that it's "useless" for you.

so basically you are saying that the only place it works for women is in the dojo

[SheBear]

I guess it is just that born-in, hardwired aspect of every man that says "You should not hit girls/women".

Nahh, that's just social rule, because why then do other cultures accept and even condone hitting women?

By all means, not saying it should be ok to hit anyone, just thought i'd point that out though.
Anyway, I've had guys go easy on me before, I suspect because I'm a slender woman. And yes i do have less strength, but some have experienced OTHER, possibly more painful things I can do to them (I'm good with pressue points and little places on the body to press if I want them to let go, move back, or distract them). Those who know me don't discriminate anymore. Beside, a lot of women have higher pain tolerance then men, so I say bring it on, teehee.

[SheBear]

Catching up on some posts now. Some people assume that not taking it easy on them means throwing them around and beating them up.

We've had men turn up that were worse than me, physically and mentally unready for combat. So whoever parters up with them should tailor what they do, no less or no more than they would to a woman in equal position. That doesn't mean you treat them like glass, but just give them a chance and room to practice technique and get used to to the whole thing. Men or women likewise.

Now, at training, during drills, is it always necessary to overpower one another? Unless it sumo wrestling (i think, don't know much about it) usually not. BJJ, judo, yeah...to an extent... but it's MA, it's about technique too. So I don't see strength always being such an issue.

I guess it also extends to sparring too, to an extent. There's more inclination to use strength, but it's a chance to apply technique, not arm wrestle.

[treelizard]

this is the typical martial arts mistake though, you were going against a guy in a controlled environment, he was new and wanting to be in the beginner category, he was effectively in a groups territory he didnt belong to.
if you broke into his house and threatened his family id expect you would die.

Naw, I was just trying to get past guard. I was way easier on him than some of the guys were. We were just breaking him in; he's okay.