Gracie Jiu Jitsu IS the best all around style!!!!

[beatbreeder86]

i thought we were talking about style vs style. and anyways i do not only train in BJJ(muay thai and judo, but bjj is my strong)..i would love to see you do that nose and eyesocket shit your talking about mr toughguy, in other words god forbid you do that. i ve also been trained with kendo stick fighting so if i fight in some lousy bar(sounds too much like a jackie chan/golden harvest type of scene) (which i never go to) people will be in quiet alot of trouble if i get a hold of the pool stick ,even some 300 pd fat **** who is out of shape...obviously i wouldnt use my grappling skills if i fought more than one guy i would get stomped like you mentioned but if its a street fight anything goes for me even weapons(no guns)

so get back to the subject style vs style and also i would like to know where you got that bulletproof quote you keep bringing up so i see it with my own eyes

mind my english

[beatbreeder86]

You didnt call gjj a bullet proof shield, your hero Helio did....hahahaha

so what you are saying is if someone with 70 lbs on you attacks you, you are screwed huh?
maybe thats why i question its validity on the street...i cant pick my attackers size and training level or restrict his weapon usage or his friends joining in...
see im about 200 lbs and many of the bikers i deal with weigh 300 or more lbs...go ahead slap your best arm bar on one...break his arm...piss him off good....he will stack you up against a wall and step/stomp on you face or throat with boots....repeatedly...until you are a mashed bloody pile of debris in the corner...seen it happen sonny, several times...you may practice no holds barred but in the streets its no attacks or weapons barred....btw i was taught that sticking my finger in your nostril and my thumb in the eye socket was a hold...havent seen that one in your NHB... or picking a guy up by his dick and throat and slamming him on the pool table isnt that a hold? grabbing an ear and ripping it off isnt that a hold?
just because you break a guys arm it doesnt necessarily end the fight...except when the ref does it for you...note in some of your own ring events where people continued to fight with a broken arm...now imagine its more than bragging rights on the line.... ...you might wanna learn an art designed to put people down and out instead of one designed to make em tapp out. unless of course you want to study a sport designed for a ring, in that case have a blast...but dont delude yourself that Gjj is the "be all end all"to a street fight.

^^^^^lol when did i mention bjj was a street fighting tool, it might be used in some cases but not all i might be repeating myself but i was talking about style vs style andin a street fight for me anything goes, even kicking and elbowing in the back of the head or kicking the groin, if i get mad enough i do alot of "unethical" type of fighting

[Tant01]

in a way he knew he was going to lose, he said it was going to be a victory for him if he lasted more than 3 minutes with kimura(which he did, there was a second round), becuz none of his challengers never lasted for more than 3 minutes...also kimura was a beast it is said he trained with trees to fortify his throws (hips shoulders etc)
also in a show i saw on helio in brazilian television he clearly stated that he never was much of a competitive fighter, he was more of a Martial artist philosopher and liked putting his modifications on the art to the test

You are right. Helio was actually afraid Kimura would kill him and Kimura almost did.
Kimura had quite a reputation as a pro (WRESTLER) "fighter". This is largly why he was kicked out of the Kodokan. Not unlike another Japanese Judoka that ended up in Brazil forty odd years before that. Interestingly enough Helio himself was recognized as a kodokan 6th dan when he challenged Kimura...

Kimura was known to practice Osoto Gari on trees.

Helio was too proud or stubborn to tap out, I think his ego is more obvious than his false modesty.

http://www.judoinfo.com/kimura2.htm

http://judoinfo.com/helio.htm The "real" story...

http://www.geocities.com/global_training_report/mehdi.htm

[BoarSpear]

i thought we were talking about style vs style. and anyways i do not only train in BJJ(muay thai and judo, but bjj is my strong)..i would love to see you do that nose and eyesocket shit your talking about mr toughguy, in other words god forbid you do that. i ve also been trained with kendo stick fighting so if i fight in some lousy bar(sounds too much like a jackie chan/golden harvest type of scene) (which i never go to) people will be in quiet alot of trouble if i get a hold of the pool stick ,even some 300 pd fat **** who is out of shape...obviously i wouldnt use my grappling skills if i fought more than one guy i would get stomped like you mentioned but if its a street fight anything goes for me even weapons(no guns)

so get back to the subject style vs style and also i would like to know where you got that bulletproof quote you keep bringing up so i see it with my own eyes

mind my english

god forbid? wtf?? since when is god a ref? and even if god were the ref he allows people to do a hell of alot worse than that daily.... btw the way the finger in nostril thumb in eye works wonders on someone trying to protect thier throat by sinking thier chin or for dragging people out of a car..... yes kendo and escrima are traditional martial arts glad to hear you practice some. yeah those 300 lbers are in less than ideal shape...so are alot of NFL linemen it doesnt mean he cant pop your head like a zit...glad to see you dont rely on guns...I am not trying to bash gjj or bjj im just tired of hearing "most fights end up on the ground" because it simply has not been my experience or anyone else's ive consulted that didnt confuse sports with war arts. i am tired of hearing "gjj will beat any style"..."royce beat everyone in the first couple of ufcs so he proved bjj is the best"...blah blah blah....seems to me kimura whipped helio's ass prior to any of royce's fights....so doesnt that mean JUDO rules?

as for the quote i will try to find a link and post it for you...

and as for being off topic the thread is called gjj IS the best all around style...thats an opinion if i ever heard one...gjj lacks striking and standing takedown skills...how can an art missing two very important components of fighting be the best one? If you mean Gjj gave birth to MMA and that is the superior ring fighting style I say youre damn right it is...

[Tant01]

.....
...so (to) get back to the subject style vs style and also i would like to know where you got that bulletproof quote you keep bringing up so i see it with my own eyes

mind my english

As you were, your english is good enough for me!

Yes, I can provide the source of that particular quote.

In it's original context.


"If someone points a gun at you, of course, you will be scared. But jiu-jutsu gives me the equivalent of a bullet proof shield. It protects me from head to toe, plus it gives me the ability to take a gun away."


Helio Gracie. via Doug Jeffrey. (From the April 05 issue of GRAPPLING magazine)

[EmptyneSs]

ooo!! david camraillo teachs at AKA here in san jose i never checked out the gym though, i wanna train BJJ later when i have more time and money i prolly go there, for now ill just stick to muay thai and get good at this

i mentioned david camarillo because he is not just another instructor. he is one of the top technicians in brazilian ju jitsu and judo, hodling blackbelts in both. his technique is amazing. he also trains the aka fighters in grappling and aka fighters are pretty good and have been regulars in ufc. im glad i have a teacher that is amazing in both ju jitsu and judo and get to learn both arts from him.

[wcskgh]

i would say that most bjj people know judo also, and as you are proud of your teacher, every other student is proud of their teacher. gokor, rickson,royce,renzo,ruas,rutten,and the list goes on and on, all have great schools, with great students who win all over, whatever a person feels most comfortable about, thats what matters, props to you and your teacher, have fun.

[beatbreeder86]

As you were, your english is good enough for me!

Yes, I can provide the source of that particular quote.

In it's original context.


"If someone points a gun at you, of course, you will be scared. But jiu-jutsu gives me the equivalent of a bullet proof shield. It protects me from head to toe, plus it gives me the ability to take a gun away."


Helio Gracie. via Doug Jeffrey. (From the April 05 issue of GRAPPLING magazine)

there are many art forms out there that teach how to take a gun away from an oponent when you have no options left, krav maga and bjj(both used in the military and special forces in various countries) is just a few of them. Rorion in the street defense tapes says (for knife attacks) the best way to defend yourself from a knife is to either run or have a gun . But then teaches upon alternatives of takin the knife away from the opponent if you have no other way out and he is about to stab you.
Thank you for the quote i ll look upon it, it is like ghosts i wont believe until i see it with my both eyes ...thanks anyways
im kind of contradicting myself but i do believe in guns if its in the hands of the right person, but i wouldnt want to go to prison becuz of killin some worthless 300 pounder biker in some bar fight, but if he would try to kill me i would reach for it

[wcskgh]

there are way better systems of knife and other disarms, than bjj or krav. has anyone actually met a krav maga instructor who fought in a war, empty handed,just curious/

as for bjj knife and gun defense, they are pretty weak, indonesian and fillipino arts are better, they fight with these weapons on a daily basis, by the way, wasnt royce studying kali?

[OmaPlata]

so what you are saying is if someone with 70 lbs on you attacks you, you are screwed huh? >


-if the the other guy has EQUAL OR BETTER TECHNIQUE yes. 70lbs and no ground skills, I win

[OmaPlata]

watch the gracies in action DVDs and all those Karate clowns that challenge them and get humiliated. Style vs Style, BJJ is by far the best, whether its the best for YOU, is a different story

[Tant01]

watch the gracies in action DVDs and all those Karate clowns that challenge them and get humiliated. Style vs Style, BJJ is by far the best, whether its the best for YOU, is a different story

Anyone watching Gracie in Action 1 and 2 might have detected a certain penchant on Rorion’s part for exaggerating the skills and achievements of the opponents of his family and its “representatives”. Rorion describes the guys who challenged him and his brothers (or accepted their challenge) in the USA as " experts", “masters”, "champions", or at the very least "instructors". In Brazil, the Gracies generally describe their challengers as palhaços (clowns).



And this makes a style good? Phui.


No ego problem there, right? Humble artists, eh?


Nothing to me but old Judo.

[wcskgh]

good ground skills does not guarantee you a win against someoene seventy pounds heavier, im sure guys like hugo duarte are out of your league, yet were smashed by tank abbot.ive seen a few boxwers clean the clock of some amatuer grapplers in the street,

grappling is great, but if the individual is better at his art, you may not win. wasnt helio screwed up by a capeira guy, when kicked in the stomache back in the day/didnt tito ortiz get his face punted by some dude in a bar, who tito would kill in the ring?

reality is different from dojo.all arts are good, its the individual

[OmaPlata]

Anyone watching Gracie in Action 1 and 2 might have detected a certain penchant on Rorion’s part for exaggerating the skills and achievements of the opponents of his family and its “representatives”. Rorion describes the guys who challenged him and his brothers (or accepted their challenge) in the USA as " experts", “masters”, "champions", or at the very least "instructors". In Brazil, the Gracies generally describe their challengers as palhaços (clowns).



And this makes a style good? Phui.


No ego problem there, right? Humble artists, eh?


Nothing to me but old Judo.

-Whatever the case, exagerrated or not, the Gracies put out 2 DVDs of their ART, dominating to no end, over the Karate nonsense. Not to mention it success in NHB fights for 75years and its success of over 90% or so. So where are the DVDs of Karate guys beating BJJ guys or Gracies? I havent seen any, maybe a roughe fight here or there, but no compilation of anybody or style beating or dominating Graices or BJJ the way it owns the others

[wcskgh]

dude, gimme a break, any greco guy would have tooled most the karate guys also, same with sombo, etc, those guys on the tape had no experience against grappling at all, except the luta livre guys, and how bout this scenario

20 kids and cousins all raised in an art since diapers, is it the style, or the experience? sparring partners galore, etc.

its no different than the thai mopping up the kickboxers in the early days.

there is nasty indonesian grappling as well as mongolian, etc, theres grappling all over the world,

these were challenge fights in open spaces, and they dominated, not one streetfighht i had was in an open space, and grappling wasnt an option, so by the way, whpo have the gracies beat lately/ didnt serra lose, didnt renzo lose? who does rickson fight? didnt sakuraba destroy a clan?

i love the gracies, but i have no blinders on, nobody knew it back then, now americans have changed it, its now AMERICAN JIU JITSU, just as the gracies changed judo to bjj, they should now give credit and call it american, since sombo leglocks have been added, and greco takedowns, it has been changed and refined, NO DIFFERNT FROM WHAT HELIO DID.