It ain't over till Florida is counted

[Tony10]

So which one was it? 'Cause if that's the case, then yes, Mickey: that is BS.

However, like you said, if they were already in line, they should be allowed to vote.

By the way, everybody, voter turnout for this one was 53%--less than 1992. Half the voters in the US just watched and let it happen the way it did.

[Ronin]

Sorry I uncorked on you guys (Tony and nhb) on the other thread. That was part trolling and part frustration with the Greens' holier-than-thou attitude.

Part of the problem is that the Greens haven't been able to get their message out, because Nader was shut out of the debates, and because they have no money. That isn't their fault.

And Tony, you are correct. Ultimately blame for Gore's loss (if he loses) will rest with Gore. Bush ran a much smarter campaign, while Gore ran on Bush's alleged incompetence and counted on him losing the debates badly, which obviously he didn't. Very poor strategy.

Still, I think when it became obvious he was going to lose and help cost Gore votes, I think the honorable thing to do for Nader would have been to endorse Gore. It almost seems like he has some Messiah-complex, where ONLY HE can save America. People like him scare me. He's like a left-wing Joe Manco.

We won't know anything until tomorrow, so I'm going to try and chill and worry about my own problems. A friend of mine asked me, "Do you really think any of this affects you personally?". It took me several minutes to think of some good reasons why I take this election (okay, all of them) so personally. The bottom-line is that four years doesn't give George W. Bush, or anyone else, time to destroy the world.

Now please, stop threatening each other with firearms my liberal brethren. This is how all revolutions unravel.

[Playa]

Ronin you go to easy on these guys.

Nader ain't ever gonna win **** so you guys fooling around with that guy while monkey head win the election!

[Ronin]

Playa:

Oh my God! You're right!

George W. looks exactly like a monkey! I think one of those gibbous monkeys that inhabit the jungles of the Amazon basin! Why did I never notice before?

I think we've got him on a technicality guys. Lower primates can't hold elected office.

[Tony10]

Playa:

flick!


Anyway,

Ronin/Rabbit:
I think I know where you guys are coming from; i.e., "We're down here in the trenches actually voting for one of the two guys IN it while you guys are talking up this holier-than-thou guy who's never gonna win while criticizing our guy! F--- you!"

I see how you could feel that way but while you guys are trying to do "A" we're trying to do "B" (create a third option). If we're gonna do that, we can't drop it to get involved in "A," or else we'd be half-assed, know what I mean? Some people let you down, but we're on a different mission, you know? That's the best way I can put it.

Hopefully we'll eventually both succeed, and then everybody wins.

[Tony10]

BTW, Rabbit, this is for you from Tim Russert @ MSNBC:

RUSSERT:
Oh, I absolutely believe that if Al Gore had lost the popular vote and Electoral College, or if there was enough concern about his ability as a candidate throughout the Democratic Party, then he probably wouldn’t go on beyond this election cycle.
But, assuming that Florida goes for Bush, Bush wins the Electoral College but loses the general election, and Gore is magnanimous and statesman-like, he would then be, in fact, a shadow president — almost the de facto nominee in 2004 — because he says, “I won the popular vote. I gave up the presidency in effect,” because of the Electoral College and the Constitution. He can be the critic of Governor Bush, or if the economy goes south, he can say, “I told you so.” And he functions, I think, in a way (for) the American public for being such a standup guy.

[Rabbit]

I understand wanting a third party, but what type of price should we pay for one?

Should we allow the RoevWade to be reversed?
Should we allow religion to once again to be taught in schools?
Should we allow innercity areas to fall into further ruin by allowing money to be sucked out of education?
Should we allow the right circumstances for affirmative action to be struck down?
Should we allow the environment to be ran down in the same way as it has in Texas?
Should we allow the benefits of Social Security to Seniors to remain unpaid?
Should we allow a man that has never dealt with foriegn policy or even studied it for that matter be our face for the world?

Voting a third party was too high a risk for such a little return in this election. I know that little adds up to a lot over time, but the best that could be obtained was funds to match another election that will be run anyways. To me voting is determining what is best for both yourself and the others who live in this country.

I've even tilted at a windmill in 96' trying to vote Nader but upon discovering the write in funcion wasn't working.(New electric pen gizmo wouldn't work) I went the to the Reform party ticket and chose Perot.

I do not accept that Democrats and Republicans are the only choices out there, or even half the BS they spew. However, I do accept that the best chance for the things I wanted to be represented were with Gore. You're right, he didn't run the best campaign, but to say that the liberal element that voted Green wouldn't have potentially put him over the top is folly.

Yeah, my shot at Nader was uncalled for wannabe. But by the same token your canidate failed just as mine, so you should understand why I took it personally.

By the by, Tony10 before you edited one of your posts, you did call me a moron. I saw it before you edited it.

Wannabe.


"damn right Tony10.

and Rabbit, if you can't see the forest for the trees, maybe that's because you're ARE a moron.

Only a FRICKIN MORON would exult in the greens not getting 5% and moving our democracy forward.

but like Manco said about arguing with idiots..."

First buy a dictionary and English book before I call the grammar rodeo officials on you.

When you say "you're are a moron" it takes the sting out of a word reffering to someone as someone with below level intelligence.

As it were son we can throw down IQ points, and although I know you must be a mental giant, lets see who comes out on top.(paraphrasing Tank Abbot)

Incidently....Did Pit Dog steal my signature?

[Ronin]

I often think of that quote after debating Joe Manco/Pit Dog.

It doesn't do me any good, but I think about it.

[Tony10]

Well, Rabbit you have to consider that if people are so turned off by either candidate--if they're that disillusioned--they probably feel their vote for Gore wouldn't help their lives anyway and thus voted for Nader.

And no--sorry to disappoint you, but the pre-edited post "moron" referred to Dubya, not you. I believe I was saying something along the lines of "don't blame ME for [electing] this moron..."

[nhb_wanabe]

sorry

i don't have an editor to check all my posts.

I type upwards of 70 words a minute sometimes and don't exactly check everything i write.

I take it back however.

You're are NOT a moron.

Personal attacks are the tool of the unarmed.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Mickey, The voter turnout in St Louis was heavier than expected. Can you imagine hundreds of people around to vote and then being told that you can't? And how many more do you think showed up and left because of prior commitments? A local court in St. Louis ruled that the polls should be left open so everyone could have a chance to vote. But then Mr. Cheney and his crew freaked out and appealed to a higher court to overturn this ruling and they got their wish. Why did Mr. Cheney and his crew freak out? Well, it's because the majority of St. Louis's citizens are democrats and he knew they were not going to vote for his ticket. We have this double standard here: Republicans are always allowed to behave like political animals in the name of justice and Christian values and if the Democrats ever do any of this they are accused of "playing dirty".

[Tony10]

Hell, yeah: ain't that the truth.

[nhb_wanabe]

and what the hell happened

to this forum, anyway?

when did everyone get so damn reasonable?

[Ronin]

Miyagi:

I dealt with this double-standard a long time ago. It is because while the Democrats act like "gentlemen" and try to play "by the rules", the Republicans are free to act like vicious, self-righteous, go-for-the-jugular piranhas and no one calls them on it because that's what you expect from them. They're Republicans. It's allowed.

Apparently if you talk enough about "God", you're free to act like a prick. Go figure.

[Masala]

lmao

so true