BJJ and other grappling MA weakness...

[RobertG]

Re: BJJ and other grappling MA weakness...

Originally posted by Bjjexpertise@be
I sparred with my cousin lately and it looks like he found a way to beat Wrestlers and Bjj.... Ok so we start off in basic fighting stances. I do a low kick to make him back up. Then as soon as he backed up, i shot for the legs. Here comes my downfall. After two steps, he put his hands to my shoulders to push me back, and began kneeing me in the stomach, Ouch!

My expression sorta looked like this after the second knee to my stomach

Ummm, your profile says you are a judo player. I don't know how long you've been doing judo, but there are a lot of throws from about the position you describe. Again, your profile says you are a wrestler. Therefore, you should know more than a single/double-leg takedown, especially from the clinch. From both those arts you should be quite comfortable closing the gap and working for a takedown. Of course you still need to defend the knees. But the average wrestler and judoka has more in their takedown repitoire than the average BJJ guy. I suppose you could always do the annoying butt flop and let him attack you while you're on the ground.

Now, I am, however, a little unclear on this. If he's pushing you back with his arms, then how does he manage to knee you if he's creating space? And even if he got some extension on his knee, if he's pushing your shoulders (instead of clinching you and pulling to into his knees like he should be doing), the knee shouldn't hurt all that much, it would be a glancing blow. Of course none of this really matters if you're cousin knew a thing or two. Again, given that you study three grappling arts, you are, I presume, well aware of the sprawl. If someone has a great sprawl, you can shoot all day on them to no avail. So your cousin hasn't discovered anything new or innovative, nor nothing that "beats bjj or wrestling" (or judo for that matter). You've just got to improve your technique and/or expand your techniques to include more than one type of takedown.

Lastly, you made a statement about leaving a bruise on your cousin for over two months. Is he a hemophiliac or something? I mean I suppose a bad bruise could last a while, but two months? That would seem to indicate some sort of problem with healing. That or you are prone to hyperbole.

Anyway, good luck working with on those takedowns.

[Ghost]

Ive had bruises from MT last that long, most do infact

[Ghost]

Hey Robert I notice you are in Houston, are you an astronaught

[Bjjexpertise@be]

The reason i do the double leg takedown or the clinch instead of doing most judo throws is because a ton of judo throws rely on the gi/kimono. Since we sparred without the gi, my judo throws became very limited. Since most normal people (this does not include ghost) tend to wear normal clothing and not gi's and kimono's when they sparred, many judo throws can not be done. The only thing i need to master is the heel hook and getting the opponent on the ground. So don't be surprised if i do a lot of "silly" attpempts when i try to throw someone down unto the ground.

[RobertG]

Originally posted by Bjjexpertise@be
The reason i do the double leg takedown or the clinch instead of doing most judo throws is because a ton of judo throws rely on the gi/kimono. Since we sparred without the gi, my judo throws became very limited. Since most normal people (this does not include ghost) tend to wear normal clothing and not gi's and kimono's when they sparred, many judo throws can not be done. The only thing i need to master is the heel hook and getting the opponent on the ground. So don't be surprised if i do a lot of "silly" attpempts when i try to throw someone down unto the ground.

I agree the gi helps, but there are lots of throws that work without a gi. Ogoshi, maybe uchi mata or ippon seio nage, any of the leg reaps, de ashi barai, harai goshi--off the top of my head. Its certainly harder to pull off, but I'd give your judo stuff a shot in the clinch. Good judo players can reliabley throw non-judo players without a gi. Now whether good judo players with no MMA experience can throw a guy who's trying to elbow or knee them in the clinch is another matter altogether, but I think you should try to expand your repitoire of takedowns regardless. You might find something that works for you and then you can develop it.

And Ghost, I'm a space cadet, not an astronaut.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

i have done many leg reaps but they don't seem to work most of the time because i can't break his/her balance. I mean i can break their balance but not the same way with the gi. So the leg reaps aren't always a yes. Ogoshi is useful and can reallyu hurt the guy when he hits the ground too but it takes too long to execute. All this is my opinion.

[SilverWolf33]

On the subject of BJJ weaknesses:

1) It can ONLY be used against one opponent

2) If there is a huge size difference (30+ pounds) size starts to matter

3) And finally, there are numerous arts popping up that are designed to beat BJJ and WORK, for example, Kino Mutai, Sanshou, and Shaolin Chin-Na. Oh and the famous Rottweiler-Do

[Tom Yum]

Self-Defense is different than combative sports. You can injure or kill someone using the techniques in combative sports, as demonstrated by ring deaths in muay thai or by turning a submission into a finishing move, so there is substantial self-defense in combative sports.

Good to point out that techniques from chin-na and kino mutai are good against the moves in combat sports, afterall self-defense should be quick and devastatingly effective.

I recommend the book "Chin Na For Groundfighting" for those who have experience in BJJ. You won't use these techniques while rolling in class (maybe some of them with modification) but they are designed primarily to strike, grab, rip and poke against common wrestling/bjj control techniques on the ground.

[SilverWolf33]

Yes Tom, but you can't forget Rottweiler-Do...why roll around the floor with a guy when you can unleash 120 pounds of angry rabie infected K9?

[Tom Yum]

No one's going to argue against that one.

But you're straying from empty handed into weapons, i guess a dog is like a weapon. But dogs, like we humans have weaknesses too. I'd give a viscious dog the advantage against a grappler, but how about a grappler also skilled with the balisong - that might level the playing field.

Unless of course you are dealing with....ILL Tempered Sea Bass with lasers!

[SilverWolf33]

Sea bass with lasers? They'd be unstoppable....I'll be sure to let you live when I take over the world with sea bass and kangaroos armed with pepper spray!

Oh and look at the funny face

[BlackMaskX]

Animal wars!!!

Against kangaroos with pepper spray, I'd unleash a swarm of exploding locusts.

[SilverWolf33]

exploding locusts? I'm sorry man but thats just WEIRD

[Battery]

Well, lets rip off the Simpsons again.
How about I loose my dogs with bees in their mouths so when they bark they shoot bees at you?

[ill_proph]

Hands on the shoulders keeps distance and stops the takedown. You can see it in a lot of fights, Maurice Smith Vs Conan(first fight) and many others. No magic to prevent it, just deal with it as it happens.