STEROIDS!?! How dangerous ARE they??

[Biz]

Screw the roids. Go natural. Be happy with who you are, there's a lot of mental stress that can come from roids. You don't want to get roid rage, do you?

[Ryu (non-working password]

Biz! WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT??! HUH?! WHAT??????
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :MAD: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I'LL KILL!!!.......oh wait...you're right.
Screw this stuff...




(I don't do roids by the way)

Ryu

[rockinronnie]

RRR........aka.......Road Rage Ryu!

Now I've seen it all - "Ryu loosing it" on the forum!

Been STACKING too much lately buddy?

I'll have to remember not to tail-gate or ride-my-brakes while my vehicle is in close proximity to yours on the freeway.

And just after I started thinking you were an alright guy.

Goes to show ya that ya can never tell what someone is really like just by reading what they type!

Ronnie.
_____________________________________
A straight arm's still a broken arm - Master JPF

[Oberleutnant]

Regarding seeing a doctor; that's very case specific. Remember, anabolic steroids are schedule III in the US and have been for a long time; hence US doctor's large unfamiliarity with them; only 4 types are administered for medical purposes.

Also, in medical school they are not trained in sports enhancement nor aesthetic enhancement; your doctor isnt the best person to ask for weight training advice either in most cases. Also, for the past 2 decades they've been brain washed with typical misinformed propaganda; doctors of the 60's had a completly different mindset, and studies surounding anabolics were being performed regularly. That all ended when they became schedule III. But this isn't apply to ALL doctors, just most. Some invest their own time in researching and doing learning outside of med. school. The only benefit I'd see in visiting a " normal" doctor would be to have your blood profiles tested; that's it. Even so, in most cases it would be unecessary unless using more risky cycles and putting your mind at ease.

[Guest]

This is a test with which you can test if your Sustanon 250 (or its clone) contains testosterone.
Put the amp in freezer for 10 minutes. When you take it out, the the oil in it should be "cloudy" (something like when you put milk in water). If it isn't cloudy, put it in freezer for another 10-15 minutes. If it isn't cloudy then, you have probably a fake.


This is a quite wide spread trick, so I don't know the one who originally invented this. It works by separation of testosterone esters from the oil due to low temperature and due to high concentration of testosterone. It will not hurt the test at all. Actually, storing the vials for long-term storage at low temps may preserve some activity which could be lost at room temp, but those esters are very stable.


Its must be mentioned though, that not all think of this test as allright. Some swear by it and others think its useless.

[rockinronnie]

Elaboration........

...I should have. My apologies.

When I was heavy into lifting weights back in the early to mid eighties, the local gym owners and/or some of the bodybuilders within the gyms would freely give out addresses and phone numbers to doctors that would prescribe anabolic steroids to weightlifters or bodybuilders that showed an interest in taking them.

Upon arrival at the doctors office, the doctor himself would come out into the waiting area, and look over the patients, trying to spot the athletes in the crowd. As he approached, he would lean over and ask why you were there. In response, you would reply that you had been told of him through your gym owner (or whoever). Without actually mentioning the word "steroid", the doctor knew why you were there, and he would invite you into his office.

Once he knew a little about your background and what your goals were, he would bring out vials of anabolics along with literature on exactly what they were, and what they would do. After you assured him that you indeed wanted to start a cycle, and before he actually administered the drug, he explained how they were administered, the possible side effects of both oral and injectable anabolics.

Before you left his office, he would schedule another appointment for you, and on subsequent appointments the doctor would take tests of both your urine and blood. Once the complete cycle was finished, you had a period in which you were "off" the juice, and then you would resume another cycle if you so desired.

My whole point here is that being under a doctors care lessens the chances of a mistake happening with regards to the administering of the drug in a "gym atmosphere" (ie; by anyone other than a competent person - in this case, a licensed doctor or equivalent).

Now, I am aware that some doctors will NOT do such a request, as anabolics have specific purposes, but it doesn't hurt to ask. I'm not familiar with the laws in the US (as you mentioned, Oberleutant), but if you're hell-bent on taking these drugs, my advise to you would be to let a professional do it.

Ronnie.
_______________________________
A straight arm's still a broken arm - Master JPF

[Ryu (non-working password]

Rockinronnie
You knew I was only joking right? I AM an all right guy! My mom says so!

LOL, I'm losing respect left and right!


Ryu

[tuffguy]

To be honest most doctors are clueless about steroids. If you really want to know about steroids you need to find doctor in sports medicine that has used them. Most doctors wouldn't be able to give you good advice on working out and eating properly for weight gain. These are the same poeple that said you don't need to eat extra protein to gain muscle mass. Most of the side effects are B.S., roid rage etc... you will probably go prematurly bald, get thicker hair on your back,chest etc... a lot of zits, mostly on your back and shoulders. But the worst thing about the juice is the damage it does to your liver and kidneys. It's basicle like being an alcoholic, but 3 times as stong. You really don't want to go on dialisis, it's not a pretty sight. If you do them once or twice in your life you probably won't do too much damage, but you won't keep the majority of your gains. YOu can gain a good 15 lbs on 1 cicle(depending on what you use and how much), if you never use it again you'll most likely loose half of it within a few months.

[McLeod]

I appreciate all the info and opinions, this is probably the most interested I've been in reading a thread in a while.

I work at a gym, and I've lifted on nautilus and free weights (depending on availability) for about four years, the last two years quite regularly.
I've gotten my diet quite regular, my body fat is down to about 5-6 percent, and my weight is steady at 185 lbs.
I ingest about 250-300 grams of Protein a day, and have a general amount of carbs and calories I try and take in.
The point is, I've been stuck at the weight I'm at ( although strength does slowly increase) for a while, and if I so much as get sick or lose a week or two of lifting due to injury (grappling) then I lose about 5 pounds on average, regardless of whether I am on something to supress Protein breakdown or not. Anyhow, being 6'1", I've been attempting to attain about 205-210 lbs for a long time, and eventually my metabolism will slow down and the weight will come easier, but in the gut as well. Abs are a good thing, so I'd rather avoid that if possible. Anyhow, the point is, after hearing all that I have about how the negative effects of juice can be greatly reduced with proper and limited usage, I've been curious.
I appreciate the info.

[Biz]

****Most of the side effects are B.S., roid rage etc..****
No way, you can go into anger fits because of all the extra testosterone... At least I'm pretty sure you can.


****you will probably go prematurly bald, get thicker hair on your back,chest etc... a lot of zits, mostly on your back and shoulders. But the worst thing about the juice is the damage it does to your liver and kidneys.****
Funny how you can go bald early, while getting more hair on your back. How come your head doesn't grow more hair. But you forgot about the worse side effect of all, BITCH TITS! Ever see fight club? lol

[JCRD]

The freezer test sometimes doesnt work for some testosterone esthers
better to put it in the refrigerator for 1-2 days and look for the same cloudiness
but once this is done the gear has crashed meaning u cant use it
to fix it you have to bake the vial at 70 degrees celcius with a 23gague needle in the vial (no syringe) to act as a vent to stop it from exploding

to answer the question of are steroids that bad
depends what you consider that bad
if cosmetic issues such as baldness, gyno (bitch tits), and acne dont bother you
remember steroids will only give you these side effects if you are prone to them naturally
i know people that use large ammounts and still dont get gyno
as well as shrunken testes (will return to normal size a few weeks after the cycle when your natural testosterone kicks in)
then no they are not that bad
bitch tits can be stopped with the use of an anti estrogen drug such as nolvadex or clomid when the first signs of bitch tits occur (itchy lumpy nipples) ALWAYS HAVE NOLVADEX ON HAND BEFORE YOU START A CYCLE, EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT PRONE TO BITCH TITS
these drugs also help kick start natural testosterone production after a cycle of steroids

oral steroids (17aa) such as dianabol and winstrol are highly toxic to the liver and shouldnt be used for longer than 6 weeks, and should always be used with milk thistle to help the liver

with the correct USE, and not ABUSE, steroids used in males are no more harmful than a female taking the contraceptive pill

as for martial artists which gear to use

Testosterone - longer acting testosterones such as enanthate and cypionate cause more water retention, it is recomended that a shorter acting testosterone such as proprionate be used to minimise water retention, it also has a much shorter detection time

Winstrol - Oral tablets or injectable liquid (injectable liquid can also be taken orally if your not worried about liver damage) good lean muscle, no water retention, moderate conversion to DHT meaning moderate side effects like baldness, good strength gains

Deca Durabolin - Good for joint problems, wouldnt use it otherwise because it does put on alot of size if your eating right

Trenbolone Acetate - Good for lean muscle and strength, VERY POTENT, bad for side effects, and will give you BAD roid rage

Anavar - THE KING of lean muscle and strength, very very safe low side effects, the only setback is it is very expensive

i have only just touched on several issues, anyone who wants to take steroids should read and read and read and read, before starting to juice, there are so many inexperienced users out there and thats what caused people to think steroids are dangerous

[Garland]

A friend of mine is going on a Deca, Dianabol, and Premabolin cycle (for horses, I think...), and is hoping to get up to about 200 lbs from 150 by November...
He says, about an 6 thousand calorie diet, becoming a gym rat, and making sure that he takes in 2 grams of protein plus for every lb of beody weight will help him acheive his goals...
He's also taking anti-estrogen's...and some other things that are supposed to block bitch tits and nut shrinking.

Is he out of his mind?

[JCRD]

A friend of mine is going on a Deca, Dianabol, and Premabolin cycle (for horses, I think...), and is hoping to get up to about 200 lbs from 150 by November...
He says, about an 6 thousand calorie diet, becoming a gym rat, and making sure that he takes in 2 grams of protein plus for every lb of beody weight will help him acheive his goals...
He's also taking anti-estrogen's...and some other things that are supposed to block bitch tits and nut shrinking.

Is he out of his mind?

Garland, yes in my opinion he is out of his mind, heres why

1) 90% of the weight he gains from dianabol will be lost

2) 6000 calories per day is way too much, try about 3000-3500, the calories must be made up of protein and carbs, not fat

3) he needs testosterone in his cycle

4) he should be a gym rat ALREADY, you need alot of quality natural muscle before you start to juice, and im talkin 2-3 years natural training at least

5)hes right about the protein but make sure most of the protein should come from food, not from protein shakes, too much whey can cause renal failure

6) anti-estrogens will slow down your gains if you take them while on cycle, he needs to take them 2-3 weeks after his cycle, but he should have them on hand, if he starts to get itchy or sore lumpy nipples, take 20mg each day for about 1 week, this wont affect your gains too much

7) nut shrinking or testicular atrophy occurs when the body feels it does not need to produce testosterone because it already has enough in it, im assuming hes talking about HCG or Proviron, its not bad if his nuts shrink provided hes doing a normal length cycle, ie 10-12 weeks because if they do shrink it wont be til after week 5 or 6, i hope hes not starting his cycle now and finishing in November because thats too long, it will cause damage to his body's endocrine system

your friend needs alot more natural training under his belt, he also needs alot more knowledge because with the ammount of knowledge in his head right now, he will be lucky to keep 5lbs of solid muscle

[Garland]

Yeah...He's not starting his cycle yet, and wants to lift natural for quite a few months before he starts his thing up.

He's done cycles before...but fallen off afterward and lost a great deal of mass. (He was at almost 180 a little more than a year ago, but stopped working out, and started partying a little too hard, all the way back to shrinking to under 150...)

I recently lifted with him, he used to put up 80 lb dumbs, and now he's struggling with half that. I was even kicking his ass, and I've never touched the roids, and have become sort of a fat body myself.

I'm trying to steer him away from the roids and get him training MA (I'm trying to show him some Thai and some Kali, BJJ and shooto stuff.) instead, trying to intstill him with the idea that it's better to be lean and MEAN, than huge, imposing, and end up losing his gains within a year or less.

I've always had a personal curiosity, the body building guys you see in those muscle mags with the increadibly huge muscles, that look almost bloated up with water, just how much of that muscle is functional, and how much is just something else...???

[JCRD]

well when posing for magazine shots, and body building shows
they are actually quite dehydrated, not alot of it is water at all