Thai Kick defense

[Ghost]

as khun kao is referring to blocking with an immediate counter, as a beginner JAB its good to use the impact point of their attack as a cue to strike, ie when their leg hits your shin, thats the launch point for your attack, and as khun kao says, its IMMEDIATE. Same with boxing, if you cover, the moment you feel their punch land on your covering arm, thats the cue to launch your counter.
In terms of block and counter this is.

You HAVE to have a solid defense vs. the kick or you will not have a solid counter! I work my guys a lot with drills we refer to as "Touch-Go's"... The emphasis is on a solid blocking technique with an IMMEDIATE counter. The key here is that your defense, if technically correct, enables you to counter almost instantaneously! If you have to readjust your stance after defending, you've already missed your chance.

Absolutely spot on. Good post.

[Khun Kao]

Good point. What, in your opinion, are the most efficient ones?
Jake

I'm coming back to this late myself, but essentially the ones that I listed are (IMO) the most effective which is why I'm teaching them.

However, I gotta ADAMANTLY concur with what Ghost stated that you have to realize that the defense and the counter are usually 2 seperate things! You HAVE to have a solid defense vs. the kick or you will not have a solid counter! I work my guys a lot with drills we refer to as "Touch-Go's"... The emphasis is on a solid blocking technique with an IMMEDIATE counter. The key here is that your defense, if technically correct, enables you to counter almost instantaneously! If you have to readjust your stance after defending, you've already missed your chance.

However, being as there are exceptions to almost every rule, there are plenty of defenses that are merely counterattacks. Basically, you beat your opponent to the target, usually with a straight attack such as a straight punch or a straight kick.... Which is essentially the same principle displayed in the counter that Ghost described.

I'm personally a huge fan of either countering off of a block, or beating my opponent to the target with a Push Kick...

[JAB]

Thanks ghost!
Good stuff guys!
Jake

[Ghost]

Good point. What, in your opinion, are the most efficient ones?
Jake

If i can come back in on this, the most effective techniques are as fire cobra stated, 1) the shin block, 2) stepping back or leaning back if its a head kick to avoid the kick altogether and 3) catching the kick and then countering off that.
Which are: 1)hard defense, 2)avoiding defense and 3)soft defense.
get the idea?
Attacking defense is nearly always the hardest.
You will find the same to be true in all other ranges too ie punch range etc

Remember JAB to separate in your mind the difference between the dealing with the kick and the actual counter. The counter is not specific and many will do. you have to look at your opponent to decide which to use. The defense you use is more critical when counter striking as to counter strike you must defend successfully first.

There is one technique i developed myself, which may exist anyway but as far as im aware it doesnt. Its an attacking defense. When a mid section round kick is thrown step forward-diagonally off to the side. So that means stepping through with your rear leg if its a right roundhouse coming at you. then as you do that you throw a cork-screw left cross (you might have to ask what this is, its like half looping cross with a lot of wrist rotation, its ideal at this angle)

This technique works so well, i landed it many times against thais in sparring with it in thailand.

Michael, my lineage is toddy as well so explains the thinking thingy.

[JAB]

Good point. What, in your opinion, are the most efficient ones?
Jake

[Khun Kao]

LOL, I'm teaching a MT Seminar tomorrow, and I'm only teaching the following defenses vs. the round kick...

1. Knee Block
2. Arm Block
3. Pushing Defense (hand push and push kick)
4. Round Kick sweep ("cut" kick)
5. Underhook Trap
6. Overhook Trap

There are a *lot* of round kick defenses, depending on the circumstances. It's cool to learn the wide variety of defensive techniques, but you gotta focus your training on the most efficient of them. Some of them are VERY hard to pull off in a live scenario, even if you have a lot of experience....

[peppi]

Chai quickly went over 12 basic defenses against the round kick, and I am pretty sure I am missing a couple

Step forward preferably at an angle towards the kick.

Good posts guys.

When you first come into an art, especially at seminar exposure, things do tend to register at a technique level. Sounds like a great session JAB, and at this stage you’re just absorbing what you can I’m sure.

Ghost’s analysis comes from far more experience, where technique focus shifts to attribute focus and ultimately shifts to concepts focus (especially when you teach). I really like the way you have broken that down Ghost, very much my way of viewing the art, or just learning in general.

Fire Cobra is right, Master Chai’s method of categorization and instruction is very much aimed at a western audience, and make no mistake this is deliberate. Its no coincidence that Master Chai heads the Thai Boxing Association of America, spreading the art in a way that would be effective to the western mindset has been his goal from the outset, and clearly he has enjoyed great success.

Although I am a student of, fan of, and advocate of Master Chai’s curriculum, I personally favour the teaching method of the other side of my lineage. The other half of my Thai training has come from the Master Toddy lineage, where things aren’t really taught in sets, numbers and patterns – but more a free expression of the basics through drilling and sparring.

Each to their own, its all good, in fact I have found precious little in Thai Boxing that isn’t good.

[fire cobra]

long time no see fire cobra hows things?

Hi Ghost,

Im good brother thanks,hows things with you? good i hope.

[JAB]

Thank you. I am new to MT so this is all news to me.

He mentioned how much things have changed in the last 40 years of teaching!
Are there any camps here in the west that have not westernized MT?
Thanks
Jake

[Ghost]

long time no see fire cobra hows things?

What and how Master Chai teaches is very westernised and catered for the western taste,it is definatly not what is taught in camps in Thailand nowadays,4 counts,8 counts 12 defences against roundkicks etc,please dont misunderstand me im not saying that Ajarn Chai isnt a good teacher or his stuff isnt workable,only that its not what is taught and trained in todays camps in Thailand,to find out what is watch a few dvds of current fights from Lumpinee, Rajadamnern etc and see how they defend round kicks,in the main they block with the shin(yok bang) they Sway away(lup) and they catch(lat),and the clinch work is predominant from rnds 3-5 in a lot of the fights.

I feel Ajarn Chais stuff is from the 1960s when footwork and movement were used a lot more,and altered for the rules of the western rings(modified thai rules).

[fire cobra]

Greetings all-
My name is Jake and I am new to this forum!
I had the wonderful opportunity over the weekend to train with Chai Sirisuite here in Seattle, WA. and what can I say other than WOW!!! Great time! I have never had so much fun covering "basics" (remember all "basic" means is that it works!).
Chai quickly went over 12 basic defenses against the round kick, and I am pretty sure I am missing a couple (perhaps I screwed up several). Can I get some help?

- Avoid (step back)
- Leg / Shin block
- Teep to the body
- Cut kick to the base leg
- Round knee to attackers kicking thigh
- Rear teep to opponents base leg
- Step off line (out of apex of kick) and catch the leg
- Spinning elbow
- Spinning back kick
- Step into kick and cross to the face
- Drop spinning leg sweep


What am I missing?
Also, I was thoroughly impressed with Chai's speed and mitt work (especially since he is in his mid 50's and nearly crippled!!!!). Does he have any videos for mitt work / Thai pad work? Any suggestions for good training vids on such a subject?

Thanks so much everyone!
Cheers
Jake

What and how Master Chai teaches is very westernised and catered for the western taste,it is definatly not what is taught in camps in Thailand nowadays,4 counts,8 counts 12 defences against roundkicks etc,please dont misunderstand me im not saying that Ajarn Chai isnt a good teacher or his stuff isnt workable,only that its not what is taught and trained in todays camps in Thailand,to find out what is watch a few dvds of current fights from Lumpinee, Rajadamnern etc and see how they defend round kicks,in the main they block with the shin(yok bang) they Sway away(lup) and they catch(lat),and the clinch work is predominant from rnds 3-5 in a lot of the fights.

I feel Ajarn Chais stuff is from the 1960s when footwork and movement were used a lot more,and altered for the rules of the western rings(modified thai rules).

[JAB]

I do. Thanks!
Anyone else? I noticed a lot of Chai cats on this board!
Jake

[Ghost]

ok mate, what you should be working on is the list of techniques within each category, not a list that spans various ones with no point of focus.

you went to a seminar so try and retain the techniques you can rather than the list itself. Concentrate on the basics, whatever else sticks then great.

as for the list, there are lots of things missing. i have no idea which counter it might be, could be one of many. i can write down 100 for you if you like, you get my point?