Which arts are closest to a real fight?

[LoneWolf1]

What I'm trying to say is if you learn the full older arts ie jujutsu complemented by kenjutsu, battojutsu ext instead of just learning a mixed art. Learn the full arts first then mix them. If u learn a pre mixed art it may not work for u since its someone else's interpretation of the art.

[NovasLogic]

Ahh, I see

I couldn't agree more. I do not like the idea of such things like Hapkido because one Aikido is an art that takes a person a life time to truly understand, and two Aikido is a peaceful art and to mix it with Tae Kwon Do in my opinion totally destroys it. Learn an art, take it for 10 years, and then move on if you want to develop it from street fights but in my opinion Martial arts are for self growth and self defense and I believe should never be taken for selfish reason such as kicking peoples asses which in my area seems to be common in the Karate community because the sensei is an ex marine who is all for violence ::shakes head:: ok, this is my own opinion so please don't flame me. I understand people may not agree.

[LiQuiD_PaRaDoX]

... should never be taken for selfish reason such as kicking peoples asses which in my area seems to be common in the Karate community because the sensei is an ex marine who is all for violence ::shakes head::

sounds like the sensei from Cobrai Kai heheheheheh

[BadgerFu57]

Cobra Kai! Show no mercy!

[EmptyneSs]

theres actually a Kobra Kai Jui Jitsu school. the name was no doubt taken from the karate kid.

[koto_ryu]

There is no way in this world that Wing chun would win against a Muay Thai fighter,not even close.

What if the WC guy pulls a gun and puts a cap in your ass? Seems like he'd win that way to me

[HtTKar]

What I'm trying to say is if you learn the full older arts ie jujutsu complemented by kenjutsu, battojutsu ext instead of just learning a mixed art. Learn the full arts first then mix them. If u learn a pre mixed art it may not work for u since its someone else's interpretation of the art.

Jujitsu is a mixed art. jujutsu evolved over 2500 years ago. It didn't even get the name Jujitsu until the Edo period. At that time there were already over 750 different styles. How can you tell someone to not take a pre-mixed art and use Jujutsu as an example? Jujutsu sprang from Sumo. Yes sumo used to have many deadly techniques. Imperial Court rules make Sumo much more tame. Original Sumo had boxing and wrestling with little or no rules. These techniqes were taken away for sport.

[Boxiados]

Fisting!!!

2. For what reason will i use my Fist rather than Palm?
Answer:
You only use your fist when you have to masturbate yourself, and palms are useless.

I can't beleive you are still around talking the same old crap as usual!

You must be very careful with Thai boxers, they use fisting a lot, and that might hurt you, but then who knows, you might like it!

[imbestigador]

my only advice to you as my true friend is:

pls quit on whatever martial arts style that you presently practice.... then switch to a new/old system of combat and that is what we called "KungFu"

pls..... this is for your own good, you'll find out later that i am right......

OK???????????

Haha. I find it hard to believe the no one, not even the wise darrianation, among you guys can crack sherwinc's hard-headed skull.

This had got to be one of the funniest threads i've read so far since a certain ninja thread here (the one with pics on how to transform into a NINJA) CONVINCED??

[Cobra_nVidia]

The most realistic system would be boxing combined with wrestling....

As far as how most people answered the question - which is the best style, it is pretty useless. I haven't seen a single Muay Thai or boxing punch that isn't taught in Karate. And Karate has a variety of open hand strikes to vital points on the head. Somebody who practices palm (heel) strike or knife hands in the same manner as someone who practices with fists will always win, because open hand strikes are more effective and dangerous against the face. Their accuracy and the fact you can hit harder with them is why most schools don't practice them - they don't need the lawsuits.

Again though, someone who comes out after a year of boxing will beat someone who signs up for a year of Karate. I'd say Muay Thai, but then again, I stopped using Roundhouse kicks in Karate because the were unrealistic...

[MuayThaiFighter]

The most realistic system would be boxing combined with wrestling....

As far as how most people answered the question - which is the best style, it is pretty useless. I haven't seen a single Muay Thai or boxing punch that isn't taught in Karate. And Karate has a variety of open hand strikes to vital points on the head. Somebody who practices palm (heel) strike or knife hands in the same manner as someone who practices with fists will always win, because open hand strikes are more effective and dangerous against the face. Their accuracy and the fact you can hit harder with them is why most schools don't practice them - they don't need the lawsuits.

Again though, someone who comes out after a year of boxing will beat someone who signs up for a year of Karate. I'd say Muay Thai, but then again, I stopped using Roundhouse kicks in Karate because the were unrealistic...

I haven't seen a single Muay Thai or boxing punch that isn't taught in Karate.

I haven't seen one single Muay Thai or boxing punch that is taught in karate unless combined with Muay Thai.

Karate doesn't teach hooks,uppercuts,knee strikes,shin round house kicks (they use top of foot which is pretty much useless) ducks or even parrying at least when I did Goju Ryu I didn't learn any of that.

In karate to stop punches we did Jodan Uke (a high block) that leaves you wide open,chudan uke(a middle block that leaves you open to get hit in head and body) and gedan uke (leaves you open to get hit in head and foot sweeped regardless how strong your stance is).We also learnt open hand strikes such as palm strikes and open knife strikes as you said,but they're pretty much useless.The only open hand strike I'd ever use if I really needed to would be poking person in the eyes or striking to throat with two fingers.

Another thing is we don't learn useless stances like the zenkutsu dachi (forward stance),neko achi dachi (cat stance),etc. Only stance we do is regular fighting stance.

Somebody who practices palm (heel) strike or knife hands in the same manner as someone who practices with fists will always win, because open hand strikes are more effective and dangerous against the face.

HA HA HA HA,Now that is freaking hilarious.No offense but what drugs are you doing?

It's more like somebody who practices with fists all the time in same manner as someone who practices palm strikes or knife strikes will always win not the other way around.Punches are more effective and dangerous against the face or anywhere on the body then strikes are.

Their accuracy and the fact you can hit harder with them is why most schools don't practice them - they don't need the lawsuits.

You got that wrong budd,infact most schools do teach open hand strikes and you can't hit harder with open hand strikes then with punches and as far as lawsuits that's freaking one of the stupidest things I've heard on net,since you could do more damage with a fist.

I know karate teaches you that open hand strikes are more effective since I did karate myself at one time although I never did believe that,it's called the sensei trying to brainwash his or her students into believing everything he/she teaches is realistic when infact open hand strikes are useless.

Try grabbing someones fingers when they do open hand strike and you can break them or you can even break your fingers while trying to do some open hand strikes.Do palm strikes and you better hope you land because if you were to miss me i'd grab your wrist and break it.Now try grabbing someone coming at you with combination punches full out and chances of grapping him/her is very unlikely.Getting hit with knuckles hurt more then by palm,fingers or knife hand strike,think about it,knuckles are all hard bone also when you have a fist,closed hands tighten your muscles and make your strikes harder.

The only time open hand strikes are really any good is for poking to eyes and throat.

Open hand is best for grabbing and parrying jabs and right-cross punches not striking.

[Tom Yum]

To Cobra

Knife hand, palm heel and spear strikes are all really good strikes when aimed at the weak parts. I have to agree with you there. Since these strikes can really mess a person up, they are never practiced live and rarely in dynamic or spontaneous environments.

Boxing/Wrestling/Muay Thai on the otherhand involves working against someone trying to punch, throw or kick you without their acknowledgement. That's a whole different level. The difference is primarily in the training methods. When it comes to all out fighting empty handed, boxing/wrestling/muay thai have the upper hand. The training is alot more demanding and therefore better prepares you for fighting.

Karate is a generic term and can refer to hundreds of styles...

The techniques are different too. Most karate guys who spar tend to be good midle ranged fighters. They have good fight strategies - mixing up straight punch flurries with backfists, spinning backfists and about 4-5 different kicks. I used to compete in the open style martial art tourneys and have fought against Shotokan fighters. Shotokan guys come in straight and like a freight train. The karate roundhouse kick is a good kick, but the muay thai shin kick has much, much more power.

On the other hand kenpo fighters tend to be fighters on the inside. They are harder to read than shotokan fighters, because they use their hands about 70% of the time and if allowed to fight with kenpo gloves (similar to MMA gloves), they can suprise you with their hand speed. The only way to fight against this kind of fighter is to work on your hand speed + defense.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Knife hand, palm heel and spear strikes are all really good strikes when aimed at the weak parts. I have to agree with you there. Since these strikes can really mess a person up, they are never practiced live and rarely in dynamic or spontaneous environments.

Boxing/Wrestling/Muay Thai on the otherhand involves working against someone trying to punch, throw or kick you without their acknowledgement. The difference is primarily in the training methods.

Karate is a generic term and can refer to hundreds of styles...

The techniques are different too. Karate guys who spar tend to be good midle ranged fighters. They have good fight strategies - mixing up straight punch flurries with backfists, spinning backfists and about 4-5 different kicks. I used to compete in the open style martial art tourneys and have fought against Shotokan fighters. Shotokan guys come in straight and like a freight train. The karate roundhouse kick is a good kick, but the muay thai shin kick has much, much more power.

On the other hand kenpo fighters tend to be fighters on the inside. They are harder to read than shotokan fighters, because they use their hands about 70% of the time and if allowed to fight with kenpo gloves (similar to MMA gloves), they can suprise you with their hand speed.

Boxing/Wrestling/Muay Thai on the otherhand involves working against someone trying to punch, throw or kick you without their acknowledgement. The difference is primarily in the training methods.

Very true.

Karate is a generic term and can refer to hundreds of styles...

Also true.

The techniques are different too.

Once again very true.

Karate guys who spar tend to be good midle ranged fighters.

Not true. Karate guys aren't even middle ranged fighters,I would agree with you if you said low ranged fighters and same goes for the Kung Fu,TKD guys and many others.

They have good fight strategies - mixing up straight punch flurries with backfists, spinning backfists and about 4-5 different kicks.

Once again I'd have to disagree. They don't have good fight strategies,because most of their strategic moves come from katas which do absolutely nothing.Spinning backfists rarely work,maybe against other karate,and kung fu people but won't work against most Thai fighters and would be hard to apply in full contact.Backfists worked when I did karate and was sparring with other karate guys but doesn't work against other Thai fighters,it only works for us if we're fighting someone in karate.

It's true karate has 4-5 different kicks however the side kick is pretty much useless because it rarely works and again will never work on someone who does Thai kickboxing.In Muay Thai if someone does a left side kick we use our left round house shin kick to person's right inner-thigh area of standing leg with full contact which forces our opponent to fall.

The front kick in karate is alright,every style uses it.The cresent kick works if done properly like most other kicks,however the jump kicks done in karate and tkd are absolutely useless most of the time in tournaments and would never work in a real fight.

[Cobra_nVidia]

Everything you mentioned is taught in one style or another...
Some styles teach deep stances, others don't...
some teach tightness, others teach looseness...
some teach the basic blocks, other's teach them as strikes...
etc...

In karate to stop punches we did Jodan Uke (a high block) that leaves you wide open,chudan uke(a middle block that leaves you open to get hit in head and body) and gedan uke (leaves you open to get hit in head and foot sweeped regardless how strong your stance is)

These are not the proper applications of these techniques. The blocks are too slow, but become useful if you use the whole movement...

Another thing is we don't learn useless stances like the zenkutsu dachi (forward stance),neko achi dachi (cat stance),etc. Only stance we do is regular fighting stance.

I never implied Karate doesn't teach more than Muay Thai. Merely that we teach more than fighting stance (it's called Kihon Dachi)

Punches are more effective and dangerous against the face or anywhere on the body then strikes are.

What's more likely, breaking the little bones of your hand on someones face, or breaking the heel of your palm. Or the side of your wrist in a sword hand to the throat?

You got that wrong budd,infact most schools do teach open hand strikes and you can't hit harder with open hand strikes then with punches and as far as lawsuits that's freaking one of the stupidest things I've heard on net,since you could do more damage with a fist.

Right, that's why boxers wear gloves, because you can punch as hard as you want too with an unprotected fist...
Obviously, you don't know why open handed techniques are baned in Karate tournaments, so don't pretend you do. One of us is a certified national coach. Shooting the heel of you palm into somebody's nose, or a knife hand to the throat are too dangerous to be used in competition.

Try grabbing someones fingers when they do open hand strike and you can break them or you can even break your fingers while trying to do some open hand strikes.

Catching someone open hand strikes are like catching someone's fist. Probably not gonna happen. That's why you parry. It's just too fast.

Do palm strikes and you better hope you land because if you were to miss me i'd grab your wrist and break it.

My fingers will either be behind your head or above your eyes. Good luck getting them. You'd have a better chance breaking the wrist of someone trying to grab you. And that isn't that likely either.

Getting hit with knuckles hurt more then by palm,fingers or knife hand strike,think about it,knuckles are all hard bone also when you have a fist,closed hands tighten your muscles and make your strikes harder.

You don't hit the same targets with a palm heel as you do with a punch. If you did, they would eliminate the less forceful one.

[Tom Yum]

Not true. Karate guys aren't even middle ranged fighters,I would agree with you if you said low ranged fighters and same goes for the Kung Fu,TKD guys and many others.

Once again I'd have to disagree. They don't have good fight strategies,because most of their strategic moves come from katas which do absolutely nothing.

It's true karate has 4-5 different kicks however the side kick is pretty much useless because it rarely works and again will never work on someone who does Thai kickboxing.In Muay Thai if someone does a left side kick we use our left round house shin kick to person's right inner-thigh area of standing leg with full contact which forces our opponent to fall.

The front kick in karate is alright,every style uses it.The cresent kick works if done properly like most other kicks,however the jump kicks done in karate and tkd are absolutely useless most of the time in tournaments and would never work in a real fight.

When I said middle ranged fighters, I was talking about distance wise. The use of backfists, straight punches, side kicks, front snaps and roundhouses seems like middle distance, whereas all kicking like TKD would be long distance.

Fight strategies: Again, I am talking about setting techniques up so you can land. For example throwing a backfist, then a quick mid level side kick. A really simple set up, but if done with good timing, the side kick will slam into your opponents chest if his guard is up and slightly high.

As far as self-defense techniques, I have seen knife-hand KOs and throat strikes do their job. There's a video out there of a police officer landing the old fashion judo chop and taking out a really big dude who has his dukes up and comes in for an overhand.

Hey man, I've practiced MT for a few years, definitely not a pro, a huge fan but I know that its probably the best stand up art out there. Karate is allright, especially the full contact fighting styles.

The side kick can work, man. Sanshou guys can rock with it, so can some really good TKD guys. It depends on how it is set up. A few simple examples:

jab, cross, lhook, left side kick

lhook, r cross, r thai kick...let the kick pass thru if it hits (or if it misses) and turn it into a side kick and jab your way out with your right (you inadvertenly switch stances if you jab out of it).