Which grappling art should I do?

[jubaji]

More times than I can count.

Wow, more than three times? That's a lot!

[jubaji]

that's why we have gotten our asses kicked in the last few altercation around the world.

Really? Which ones?

[jubaji]

You might want to not stick your nose in things you have no clue about.

See post #105

You two are truly a couple of D-bags.

[TTEscrima]

You completely missed my point. I was saying that since even hardened criminals can't stop a 3 man team, it seems improbable you could.

I'm bored, this is way off topic.

Nite all.

Same old BS, run away and ignore the points you can't spin to your liking. Deny, evade, accuse, same old shit, different screen name.

Just for fun though, you want to claim that because one guy (who is often naked or in his underwear) and trapped in a cell the size of an elevator with no room to maneuver gets taken down by teams of specially trained men (6 to 8 is common) wearing armor working in concert and armed with an assortment of chemical weapons, clubs, tasers and shock shields as proof that SD against multiple opponents is impossible? If that's the case why do they need armor, shields, chemical weapons and stun weapons as well as special training again?

Lamest excuse for an premise of why SD against multiples is impossible EVER, even Tigerclaw makes better arguments than you.

No matter how you try and spin it you shot yourself in the foot, oh yeah, that's why you ran away, knowing when you're whipped and running, now that's good SD.

[TTEscrima]

Nope. Wrong again Mr Internet warrior

I rest my case, ignore all the points that made you look like a fool (even though you did it to yourself as usual) and make a personal attack instead.

BTW that insult seems real big with you sports proponents, news flash bud Vets find it funny because it shows your insecurity, you know deep down where you stand and what you see as the big insult reflects on who you really are and your own insecurities about your experiences, To quote GM Ed Parker "Trying to shorten my line doesn't lengthen yours".

Since it seems all your fight experiences were verbal, I expected better.

[Junka]

BTW smartass they are bound by specific rules of engagement that the BG's are not and that's why it takes 3 men to WRESTLE/GRAPPLE one to the floor, not because its impossible for LEO's or prison guards to handle scumbags one on one.

You completely missed my point. I was saying that since even hardened criminals can't stop a 3 man team, it seems improbable you could.

I'm bored, this is way off topic.

Nite all.

[Junka]

Hi Mikey, how many screenames are you going to join up with? Your habit of twisting words is a dead giveaway you need to be retrained. If it isn't you, then the next generation was as poorly trained as you were.

Nope. Wrong again Mr Internet warrior

[Junka]

Verbal judo works fine (and IS an essential skill) but it's completely worthless against a determined attacker. People intent on actually doing harm to you rarely let you talk you way out

Agreed, and against one determined attacker, striking can work (I have used it effectively), grappling can work etc....

I'm just pointing out that having like I said, a lot more experience around guns and cutting weapons than most RBSD instructors do, my informed opinion is that nothing is going to disarm 3 people with guns unless they're morons of the highest order.

As to the practically of BJJ then it comes down to mixing. It's a proven grappling skill set, much like boxing is a proven punching skill set. If you wanted to be a well rounded fighter, you need several skill sets. Going to the ground isn't always a matter of choice, you could have been sucker punched or slipped on an icy side walk.

if you can talk your way out it shouldn't be counted as an assault you survived, it's simply a conversation (perhaps heated) you survived that stayed rational.

When I pushed my way in front of the gun I had no way of knowing how it would turn out TT. I was prepared at that point to go the distance (actually it wasn't a choice) but you would have had to be there to understand it. A conversation LOL

[TTEscrima]

I've been in those situations too, except I'm not retired. I still have that problem from time to time. So tell me, how did you defend yourself against group of sailors trying to stab you?

Hi Mikey, how many screenames are you going to join up with? Your habit of twisting words is a dead giveaway you need to be retrained. If it isn't you, then the next generation was as poorly trained as you were.

To answer your question when facing knives or any close range weapon I stayed moving (on my feet and avoided grappling) and struck at the hands, knees or head when they were within range. An asp strike or a kick to the kneecap is a pretty quick way to slow someone down.

If you want proof then just go to see what prison officers do for a living. They can take a 3 man team against the hardest of criminals and secure them. Oh and that is an established fact BTW. Go and show them your multiple opponent defenses.

Well next time they show up in my class or I run a seminar for the SRT guys I'll do that, oh wait I already do. BTW smartass they are bound by specific rules of engagement that the BG's are not and that's why it takes 3 men to WRESTLE/GRAPPLE one to the floor, not because its impossible for LEO's or prison guards to handle scumbags one on one.

Besides those mighty prisoners you seem to be so in awe of that require 3 or more guards with weapons and shields to defeat on a regular basis just so happen to be...HUMAN Dang dude way to blow yourself out of the water!! One guy punching and kicking is a handful for 3 armed guys trying to grapple him eh? Glad you noticed. Maybe you should have a talk with the other sports proponents and let 'em know since they're demanding "proof".

[kingoftheforest]

And, of course, you prefer a fighting environment where there are no rules. A fighting environment where you take on five knife-wielding opponents every night! (sarcasm, of course) I mean, seriously, don't pretend like your training is done without rules. Of course there are rules when you train, in order to protect the students. Otherwise, there'd be a whole lot of stabbed kids running around...and I don't think the lawyers would like that too much...

No kids in the classes I help teach or train in. And yes I am an associate instructor in a RBSD school. No one under 18 kids don't need to know how to kill and maim.

The only reason a grown man should fight is if he is attacked by another grown man. Apparently the men you know are pretty harmless from your attitude and lack of resolve.


"Please don't stab me just take my wallet", isn't a SD move. neither is giving up. Least not where I'm from.

[kingoftheforest]

And, of course, you prefer a fighting environment where there are no rules. A fighting environment where you take on five knife-wielding opponents every night! (sarcasm, of course) I mean, seriously, don't pretend like your training is done without rules. Of course there are rules when you train, in order to protect the students. Otherwise, there'd be a whole lot of stabbed kids running around...and I don't think the lawyers would like that too much...

Here we have more assumptions from you. i gave you a scenario that didn't fit into your little bubble of what you think should happen in a real fight and want to take it and bend it to some insane extreme. Your predecessor did the same thing and it made him look just as silly.

Running is very seldom an option when attack on the street. if your immediate response is to show an attacker your back you need some learnin' son.

No I don't feel I'm Rambo, but I'm also not going to just give up because the odds are against me. If a man in Africa can pull out a leopards tongue when he is unarmed and attack and get away with some stitches, I'm going to give it my best to fight back.


I am aware that the US military teaches guns before hand to hand. Maybe that's why an Afghani grandma choked out a Marine. We are a gun culture and we teach our military that if you have a bigger gun you'll win. that's why we have gotten our asses kicked in the last few altercation around the world.


Tactics planning and knowing your enemy and what you can and can't do win you fights, not crying this shit doesn't work and balling up on the floor, or making rules and rings to make it "fair".


And once again you are picking and choosing to attack wha people are saying to you and twisting context to fit your agenda.


Welcome back Brewer it's been dead without you here. I haven't had a good argument or a chance to make an ass out of somebody in awhile I'd almost say I missed you. But I really didn't.

[TTEscrima]

I've worked for logging companies, mining companies and the UN in Darfur, the DRC, South Sudan, The Congo, the Central African Republic and Cameroon to name but a few. I have been in fights, though not many thank God. I have chased down a guy for my cell phone and I've argued with drunk African's wearing uniforms and carrying guns, at night and alone. I know a thing a two about living in areas outside of the rules and I'll tell you now: What wins is the ability to have a calm steady voice even though you're having an adrenaline rush and to assess your options with great care.

As to lack of heart, I stepped right between a gun and my best friend and used my best French (In Cameroon) to defuse a situation between him and three cops he'd gotten into a situation with by refusing to pay bribes. If it wasn't for being VERY experienced in these environments I could easily have got us both shot or just froze.

I do live in the real world. A world away from shopping malls and dojos too.

So you've talked your way out of some encounters on the street good for you. Verbal judo works fine (and IS an essential skill) but it's completely worthless against a determined attacker. People intent on actually doing harm to you rarely let you talk you way out, if you can talk your way out it shouldn't be counted as an assault you survived, it's simply a conversation (perhaps heated) you survived that stayed rational. Is verbal judo SD? Sure it is, and it's far more relevant to SD than BJJ.

[Junka]

More times than I can count, I'm a retired Navy Master at Arms, I've dealt with groups of drunk civilians fighting drunk soldiers, drunk soldiers fighting college kids, drunk soldiers fighting each other, hell I've been a drunken sailor fighting a group of Marines, sailors with knives who were stabbing other sailors shipboard when I arrived and they turned on me and armed people fighting with me from a half dozen countries over a 20 year span. In none of those cases would BJJ or wrestling have done anything but gotten me killed.

I've been in those situations too, except I'm not retired. I still have that problem from time to time. So tell me, how did you defend yourself against group of sailors trying to stab you?

BTW, my own skill sets aren't restricted to BJJ. However, anyone who took on more than one or two assailants is either a. superhuman or b. got lucky.

If you want proof then just go to see what prison officers do for a living. They can take a 3 man team against the hardest of criminals and secure them. Oh and that is an established fact BTW. Go and show them your multiple opponent defenses.

For my own part, the last time a I fought and lost against multiple opponents, I used punches until I got hit from God knows where and fell under a rein of blows. I've been there and I just don't believe there is an effective defense. All you can do is fight and see how it plays out sometimes.

[USArmyBJJ]

it shows lack of heart, which would explain why you prefer an fighting environment with rules.

And, of course, you prefer a fighting environment where there are no rules. A fighting environment where you take on five knife-wielding opponents every night! (sarcasm, of course) I mean, seriously, don't pretend like your training is done without rules. Of course there are rules when you train, in order to protect the students. Otherwise, there'd be a whole lot of stabbed kids running around...and I don't think the lawyers would like that too much...

[Junka]

I've worked for logging companies, mining companies and the UN in Darfur, the DRC, South Sudan, The Congo, the Central African Republic and Cameroon to name but a few. I have been in fights, though not many thank God. I have chased down a guy for my cell phone and I've argued with drunk African's wearing uniforms and carrying guns, at night and alone. I know a thing a two about living in areas outside of the rules and I'll tell you now: What wins is the ability to have a calm steady voice even though you're having an adrenaline rush and to assess your options with great care.

As to lack of heart, I stepped right between a gun and my best friend and used my best French (In Cameroon) to defuse a situation between him and three cops he'd gotten into a situation with by refusing to pay bribes. If it wasn't for being VERY experienced in these environments I could easily have got us both shot or just froze.

I do live in the real world. A world away from shopping malls and dojos too.