The Brutality of it...

[EmptyneSs]

And all those things arent MMA....they are things that these people also do that MMA is trying to claim as thier own...big freakin difference bud, thats just cross training....first GJJ claimed to be an original art and seems to deny the same moves existed elsewhere FIRST, now the mooks are claiming ANYTHING under the sun as MMA I seem to remember the Dog Brothers trying to get into the MMA scene back at the start and they were told that weapons wasnt what MMA was all about....seems these days with money to be made everyone is singing a diferent tune

funniest part is by your definition combatives is the original MMA, go look up the Navy "V" programs from the second world war, watch the camp X seminar...then tell me this is news to anyone but the suckers who think the so called MMA revolution is a new idea....

i didnt claim they were mma. im sayin that lots of people who train in sport arts are indeed very concerned about sd. you expect people to stick to specific rules and stereotypes when they dont. just because someone trains mma doesnt mean they dont know about combatives or train for sd as well, something you blindly assume they do. are you just insecure?

[BoarSpear]

as i said, your generalizations are a mistake on your part. i know of many people at our gym who have weapons training in other arts and share it with others at a gym. one of the kickboxers/trainers at the gym was also an expert in doce pares(sp?), and we have more than one trainer who teaches self defense techniques with their mma, like setting up takedowns and throws with elbows to the throat, breaking floating ribs, attacking knee joints etc...

mma gyms contain a wealth of different martial arts info because of all the people from different styles coming together. its a martial arts community. thats a major strength of training at a mma place. i can learn from tons of different people from various backrounds and disciplines.

And all those things arent MMA....they are things that these people also do that MMA is trying to claim as thier own...big freakin difference bud, thats just cross training....first GJJ claimed to be an original art and seems to deny the same moves existed elsewhere FIRST, now the mooks are claiming ANYTHING under the sun as MMA I seem to remember the Dog Brothers trying to get into the MMA scene back at the start and they were told that weapons wasnt what MMA was all about....seems these days with money to be made everyone is singing a diferent tune

funniest part is by your definition combatives is the original MMA, go look up the Navy "V" programs from the second world war, watch the camp X seminar...then tell me this is news to anyone but the suckers who think the so called MMA revolution is a new idea....

[EmptyneSs]

Carrying a weapon doesnt make you aware of how it fits into combat....The MMA gyms and people I have seen offer ZERO instruction in their use....you either get that training elsewhere or assume you learned from MMA class...and again its about the wording MMA and the GENERAL POPULATION who has to to start somewhere....they hear MMA and think UFC or more specifically GJJ...if you train you may realize the difference but many dont...too many MMA people say if you pull a knife "i'll just run" or my favorite the MMA clown who said" he would get in his car and run me over", yep that was one of your forum brothers right here...thats proof of living in a fantasy world with no idea of how knife encounters unfold...but you carry knives and MMA prepares you for an edged weapon encounter

as i said, your generalizations are a mistake on your part. i know of many people at our gym who have weapons training in other arts and share it with others at a gym. one of the kickboxers/trainers at the gym was also an expert in doce pares(sp?), and we have more than one trainer who teaches self defense techniques with their mma, like setting up takedowns and throws with elbows to the throat, breaking floating ribs, attacking knee joints etc...

mma gyms contain a wealth of different martial arts info because of all the people from different styles coming together. its a martial arts community. thats a major strength of training at a mma place. i can learn from tons of different people from various backrounds and disciplines.

[BoarSpear]

your generalization of mma people is quite a mistake on your part. i train at a mma gym, and almost all the mma fighters i know carry weapons like folding blades outside the school, me included. most people who train seriously are aware of weapons and what to use them for, much unlike they way you always say they dont. you always like to assume that people who train in a competitive martial art have no interest in self defense, will stick to competition rules when put in a real self defense type situation, and you also assume they have no interest in carrying weapons and using them.

competitive sport arts are a great way to develope a tested delivery system for whatever you want to employ. what i mean by this is that i may train in boxing, a sport.......but boxing will allow me to deliver all the nasty "SD" things way easier. training in boxing will allow me to get to the opponents throat and vital spots. know what im sayin? this is why i train in sport arts, despite being only concerned about self defense. you can develope a nice delivery system and add whatever you want to it from there.

Carrying a weapon doesnt make you aware of how it fits into combat....The MMA gyms and people I have seen offer ZERO instruction in their use....you either get that training elsewhere or assume you learned from MMA class...and again its about the wording MMA and the GENERAL POPULATION who has to to start somewhere....they hear MMA and think UFC or more specifically GJJ...if you train you may realize the difference but many dont...too many MMA people say if you pull a knife "i'll just run" or my favorite the MMA clown who said" he would get in his car and run me over", yep that was one of your forum brothers right here...thats proof of living in a fantasy world with no idea of how knife encounters unfold...but you carry knives and MMA prepares you for an edged weapon encounter

[EmptyneSs]

MMA people are taught to solve problems with thier sport derived skills and mindset...it didnt occour to Mr MMA that the guy might be packing because that wasnt Mr MMA's reality...I assure you, no Combatives guy assumes he is beating up a guy on the street...we all realize shitheads carry weapons and or travel in packs...MMA people have the wrong tools and mindset for the street...Combatives people dont...We EXPECT the shithead to be armed ..MMA REQUIRES the opponent to be unarmed Combatives people stress proper tools for the job, even when MAD. Especially mad, we grab our vest and tools or we dont go....brain first, weapons second....MMA is the opposite, notice the billboards you all wear announcing what your skill set is

your generalization of mma people is quite a mistake on your part. i train at a mma gym, and almost all the mma fighters i know carry weapons like folding blades outside the school, me included. most people who train seriously are aware of weapons and what to use them for, much unlike they way you always say they dont. you always like to assume that people who train in a competitive martial art have no interest in self defense, will stick to competition rules when put in a real self defense type situation, and you also assume they have no interest in carrying weapons and using them.

competitive sport arts are a great way to develope a tested delivery system for whatever you want to employ. what i mean by this is that i may train in boxing, a sport.......but boxing will allow me to deliver all the nasty "SD" things way easier. training in boxing will allow me to get to the opponents throat and vital spots. know what im sayin? this is why i train in sport arts, despite being only concerned about self defense. you can develope a nice delivery system and add whatever you want to it from there.

[BoarSpear]

Perhaps it wasn't because he was an MMA person...I'm saying that he had a lapse of common sense...something that even a combatives person or RBSD person could've fallen to. Everybody fucks up once and awhile, especially when it's important. I'm sure he knew better, perhaps his life experiences up to that point had shown him that it might've been less dangerous to run up on somebody like that...maybe he assumed, wrongly, that they didn't have a gun.

Everyday people make these mistakes, and they don't have to be MMA guys to **** up...and I'll argue that it could even happen to combatives people in a moment of brazen stupidity or a lapse of focus.

MMA people are taught to solve problems with thier sport derived skills and mindset...it didnt occour to Mr MMA that the guy might be packing because that wasnt Mr MMA's reality...I assure you, no Combatives guy assumes he is beating up a guy on the street...we all realize shitheads carry weapons and or travel in packs...MMA people have the wrong tools and mindset for the street...Combatives people dont...We EXPECT the shithead to be armed ..MMA REQUIRES the opponent to be unarmed Combatives people stress proper tools for the job, even when MAD. Especially mad, we grab our vest and tools or we dont go....brain first, weapons second....MMA is the opposite, notice the billboards you all wear announcing what your skill set is

[treelizard]

If your body language is strong, and if you *aren't* scared, how is someone going to know that you aren't just crossing the street because you need to be on the other side of the street?

[Sagacious Lu]

It depends on what the neighborhood is like. There are some parts of town where it just isn't wise to let anyone near you. Go ahead and call me paranoid, but I have crossed the street many times to avoid some crackhead or a group of people. If they're out to give me shit, I'd rather be across the street where I can see them coming rather than simply walking right up to them and hoping for the best.

Different situations need to be handled differently, but the reason I don't think crossing the street is a good idea isn't because it's paranoid. Sometimes you have a very good reason to be worried and I agree with you, if you can see a situation that looks ugly enough it's best to stay the hell away from it. The thing is street people can tell if you're acting afraid (like dogs in a way) and crossing the street is a sure sign that you're nervous. Showing fear can mean the difference between a homeless person asking for spare change once and him following you down the street or even demanding your wallet. I think we're talking about different situations though; if there's a gang just hanging out looking for something to do there's no way I'd try to walk through it.

[treelizard]

Also if you're doing it right a lot of the times when you say cross the street or maybe when you wait to get on an elevator or wait in a parking lot before biking because you want to keep some distance from someone, etc. they don't even notice.

[BoarSpear]

If they're out to give me shit, I'd rather be across the street where I can see them coming rather than simply walking right up to them and hoping for the best.

Well said, crossing the street from a pack will give me time to access my weapons and meet the attack head on if its going to happen. However crossing the street can imply fear, its all in how you do it. If you cant tell the normal person on the street from the threat then you might be an MMA person with no street experience Usually If you cross the street its a block ahead of time...

[Garland]

"I'm a MMA god and I have all the tools I need to fix that idiot" He was wrong..DEAD wrong sports are just that, remember that the next time you go to teach a non sport player a life lesson.

Perhaps it wasn't because he was an MMA person...I'm saying that he had a lapse of common sense...something that even a combatives person or RBSD person could've fallen to. Everybody fucks up once and awhile, especially when it's important. I'm sure he knew better, perhaps his life experiences up to that point had shown him that it might've been less dangerous to run up on somebody like that...maybe he assumed, wrongly, that they didn't have a gun.

Everyday people make these mistakes, and they don't have to be MMA guys to **** up...and I'll argue that it could even happen to combatives people in a moment of brazen stupidity or a lapse of focus.

[stabbychick]

.............................

[BoarSpear]

you don't have to say it...I know where you're going with that...and it could easily have happened to a combatives person too if they got heated and had a lapse of judgement at the wrong time.

(I could see you drunk off cabo wabo running after somebody if you walked out side and saw them driving off in your car)

MMA and MT schools teach you to actually fight, it teaches you a lot more about practicality and how to apply stuff you learned then anything...that's why sportive stuff is useful! As for being aware...yeah, probably not as much there, but neither do most MA's, unless they're RBSD...even some combatives courses overlook that important, common freakin' sense aspect, because they're too busy on specialized training.

I believe, honestly, that taking a combat sport will help you become a better fighter in a fight for your life then taking combatives alone. Supplementing your art with the MMA or Muay or Judo, etc...will help you, boary boy...I know it's late to teach an old dog new tricks...but I think you would benefit from it, maybe learn a thing or two that fits in with what you're already doing, eh???

I grew up doing JJJ, wrestling and boxing in the 1960's the only thing I no longer train is the boxing And you're wrong, I wont lose my head and thus my life because the people who trained me explained that people arent bullet proof...striking stances, tattoos, haircuts and clothing that tell the world you're a baddass also tell us you're a dumbass who likes painting targets on himself. I've been in multiple situations where acting like the baddass would have gotten me killed...see reality training emphasizes that while the average idiot is only looking to beat you up and put his foot on your chest all macho like, those altercations can usually be avoided. While the lunitic willing to kill you for 5 bucks or an imagined transgression cant...and the two require different skills to deal with them. When you are taught the potential outcome of EVERY fight is court and the hospital or morgue for everyone involved you take matters a little more seriously....go ahead hit my car...I'll cuss and call the insurance people AFTER class is over..I damn sure wont chase you down the street in my training gear...thats a big sign saying look I'm a pissed off Martial artist coming to kick your ass...it also says you live in a non reality world where you can teach people a lesson for offending the mighty ring warrior....that attitude is called a mind set...that mind set was "I'm a MMA god and I have all the tools I need to fix that idiot" He was wrong..DEAD wrong sports are just that, remember that the next time you go to teach a non sport player a life lesson.

[treelizard]

First of all I found my original quote about not doing anything you wouldn't want a third grader to do.

I wanted to add though that the majority of pre-fight information I've gotten in SD classes is absolutely unrealistic in real life. Not because it's stuff people CAN'T do, but because it's stuff people WON'T do. For example, I had one instructor tell me once not to do anything that I wouldn't ask a third grader to do. One woman in a class was talking about getting followed once when she went to drop some mail at the post office, mid-day. The instructor said "Would you ask a third grader to go walking around downtown Tucson, dropping off mail?" Of course not. But there's only one problem with this equation... she wasn't a third grader.

The idea of stringently avoiding any risks at all is often espoused and it's completely unrealistic to assume that a group of people is going to suddenly stop walking or cycling anywhere, drive everywhere with doors locked and be escorted by multiple people at all times. I wish they had different degrees of risk and talked more about risk assessment instead of telling people to treat themselves like third graders.

As far as crossing the street--if I think someone is following me, I'll cross the street. That way if they continue to follow me, I'll respond appropriately. Would you rather people just ignore their intuition and see what happens? I can certainly understand the value of retaining objectivity and not feeling afraid of a bunch of perceived threats that don't exist. But in reality, many people are more likely to keep second-guessing themselves when there really IS a threat and end up in a bad situation.

[Garland]

Agreed 100 percent, but I've yet to see an MMA school that instilled those qualities....Does fairtex teach those qualities?

you don't have to say it...I know where you're going with that...and it could easily have happened to a combatives person too if they got heated and had a lapse of judgement at the wrong time.

(I could see you drunk off cabo wabo running after somebody if you walked out side and saw them driving off in your car)

MMA and MT schools teach you to actually fight, it teaches you a lot more about practicality and how to apply stuff you learned then anything...that's why sportive stuff is useful! As for being aware...yeah, probably not as much there, but neither do most MA's, unless they're RBSD...even some combatives courses overlook that important, common freakin' sense aspect, because they're too busy on specialized training.

I believe, honestly, that taking a combat sport will help you become a better fighter in a fight for your life then taking combatives alone. Supplementing your art with the MMA or Muay or Judo, etc...will help you, boary boy...I know it's late to teach an old dog new tricks...but I think you would benefit from it, maybe learn a thing or two that fits in with what you're already doing, eh???