Training for the Street

[Tant01]

Think outside the (cube?)

Naw man...SNES-fu. I'm a traditionalist.

G man... That stuff is SO last century. I admire the old school but it's time to step into the twenty first century. You must adapt to the new game...(or die)

I was going to go Kanoan on your ass but I'll let you slide (this time)

I got an old Nintendo gamecube for my daughter but she needs me for the multiplayer mode






...And to fight the scary monsters in Zelda


LMAO

[Tom Yum]

He is called the godfather of grappling and the toughest man alive...

There might be a reason for that?

Ya think?

Absolutely. I admire the guy's skill and experience. I've read alot of things about him during the pre-MMA era (when BB mag used to cover traditional MA masters). What impressed me the most? All accounts say he's a really nice fella.

[Tom Yum]

Naw man...SNES-fu. I'm a traditionalist.

SNES?!?

Young whipper snapper....I grew up on plain ole NES and before that all we had was an atari-2600.

WE LIKED IT!

WE LOVED IT!!

[Garland]

No powersliding into turbo boost?

Nintendo gamecubejutsu?

Mirror mode?

Naw man...SNES-fu. I'm a traditionalist.

[Tant01]

...none of that fancy shit richie rich, I'm talking about the SNES version.

No powersliding into turbo boost?

Nintendo gamecubejutsu?

Mirror mode?

[Tant01]

.....
...
Take Judo Gene LeBell.

He's a very high ranked and well respected instructor in Judo, which is mostly a combat sport and I believe he's been integrating weapons into his system since the early 80's......

He is called the godfather of grappling and the toughest man alive...

There might be a reason for that?

Ya think?

[Garland]

I've been practicing double dash! I can take you...

...none of that fancy shit richie rich, I'm talking about the SNES version.

[Tant01]

Beat this...

Man, I'll cool all yo asses like preperation H.

I could so whoop everyone on this forum...


























at Mario Kart.

I've been practicing double dash! I can take you...

[Tom Yum]

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[Tom Yum]

I've been training in the martial arts on and off over 10 years, where I earned a 1st dan black belt in one style, then just started cross training like a madman in other styles.

I've always been a spar-whore; I'll spar with almost anyone with international kickboxing rules until one of us gasses out or until I feel I've been beat up enough ...I've worked on escapes, grappling and some simple disarms.

You can count the amount of times I've used it for real on one hand and fortunately, my training has come through (allbeit not picture perfect) and thankfully, I've never had to deal with anything too bad. I know there are tougher and more bad ass guys out there, with MA skills who look for these kinds of experiences, but frankly I don't think its a good way of life as a civillian.

I concede that there are things in the combatives realm that you cannot learn in combat sports AND vice versa, even though there is some overlap...so why argue about these things?

Why not bridge the gap?

Some martial artists have done so.

Take Judo Gene LeBell.

He's a very high ranked and well respected instructor in Judo, which is mostly a combat sport and I believe he's been integrating weapons into his system since the early 80's.

Bas Ruten: experienced in karate, muaythai and submission wrestling and an established pankration/MMA fighter, has been in alot of street altercations as a bouncer in Amsterdam. He's used knives, bar stools and pool cues to assist in fights - none of which are taught in contact sports, but can be 'figured' out if you have a MA mind set.

There are some guys who practice strictly traditional martial arts, whom are very effective at what they do.

You might laugh at forms-practitioners, and maybe most aren't fighters but there are some who are very capable with their hands and feet. And what makes them special, is that most haven't seen what they can do.

[Garland]

Man, I'll cool all yo asses like preperation H.

I could so whoop everyone on this forum...


























at Mario Kart.

[DickHardman]

here are some of my thoughts on the topic.

i dont train in sport arts because i feel they reflect the reality of the street. i train in sport arts because i feel some of them can help me build attributes that are very desirable for self defense uses in bad situations.

from boxing and mt, i gain increased physical speed and reaction time. i also learn to take strikes while keeping my cool and toughening up my body. i also learn how to counter attack peoples strikes, i learn how to defend myself from empty handed blows, and i learn how to effectively evade strikes.

from jiu jitsu i learn joint locks, chokes, takedowns, and how to manipulate peoples clothing to my advantage. i also learn to deal with people who have already grabbed me or people who are trying to overpower me with strength and brute force. i get used to being in bad positions and keeping my calm till i can escape.

these are the reasons why i chose these arts for self defense, even though they are not specific self defense arts. i didnt want to learn these skills in a trimmed down sd program because i personally have the time to study these arts and learn the intricacies that make them so effective. i wanted to learn these skills i listed from those who have mastered them.

for weapons, those too can be combined with the skills and attributes gained from empty handed arts. i have mentioned before that a knife or stick blends perfectly well with boxing and mt, especially since these empty handed skills were originally derived from weapon arts to begin with. the hand speed, timing, counter-attacking ability, footwork and pinpoint accuracy gained from boxing can be used to wield a knife with much proficiency inmop.

as for the awareness aspect, i realize not all people have the same instincts, but thats a no-brainer for me personally. being aware of your surroundings, de escalation, avoidance, escaping thats all a given for me as a martial artist, i never needed to take a class to be aware of those things. but i know not all people are the same, and many need guidance. but that doesnt mean that there arent martial artists out there who can effectively defend themselves using what they have gained from training in a sport art. really depends on the persons mindset and goals.

as i said, there are people in my jiu jitsu class who base the effectiveness of techniques based on how many points they can score with it in competition, and then there are those like me who are using jiu jitsu to learn how to escape from bad positions and be able to avoid being taken down to the ground by an opponent etc.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Very seldom do you see a unique "trick" in NHB competition, Judo Jibboo. The fighters are becoming cookie cutter clones of each other and that's why the fights are as competitive as they are. They all thai box until the get in close enough to grapple. Then someone either gets rocked, or someone scores a takedown. That's the MMA mold that these events have created. There used to be more diversity in styles and background. Now most of the young guys are coming up from MMA gyms that teach them from jump street to fight in the MMA format. Its not that they found a set of techniques that "works", because other styles work also. They just invented a new ring style that makes the fights more competitive and pleasing to watch. That's seem to be what you were saying above. When you fight someone from your own school, its more competitive because you train the same. It will look more organized and skilled because its more of a chess match. But when you face other people who's skills and habits you are unfamiliar with, it looks sloppier and less of a chess match, and more of a melee to gain a superior position. And that's why its the unconventional NHB fighters that rule the events like Crocop, Fedor and Nogueira. They have base skills in other styles from which to draw from. And they've mastered those base skills. They didn't just crash course them like the cookie cutters. Jack of all trades/master of none.

Yup, I've lamented this trend toward a generic MMA style myself on this very forum many times, though I'm beginning to see up sides to it as well. But even still, there are subtleties to it that are easy to gloss over when you're watching two guys trained in those subtleties. A fight between one of these cookie cutter MMA guys and someone who didn't train that set of techniques will look very different. For example, if a guy is dropping his hands when the MMA guy kicks to the body instead of checking the kick with his shin, the MMA guy is going to kick him in the head next time! The tricks are all still there, lurking under the surface, but because each guy knows the other's tricks they don't get a chance to come out all the time.

I'm only marginally familiar with the three fighters you mentionned, but I know that Crocop, aside from his amazing striking, has a rock-solid sprawl. That's what I think is great about MMA, it gives guys with a unique style, or guys who have been very dedicated to one art, a stage to come out and see how their art can be applied to a situation outside the school where every opponent may have unexpected reactions. These guys are the most fun to watch, because they bring the tricks back to the foreground, like Parysian with his throws or (much to my delighted surprise) Silva with his simple Thai clinch that Franklin apparently had never seen before . Though it doesn't always happen, MMA provides a stage where the potential for these kind of tricks to come out is huge.

It won't be an accurate representation. If I took two guys who have novice boxing skills, meaning a solid year of training and gave them gloves and put them in the ring, you would not get an accurate representation of what boxing offers. That's a fact. 9 times out of 10 both their footwork would be shitty, there would be little to no slipping. They would have an undeveloped sense of timing and distance. Their stances would be probably the only thing that they'd have half way decent at that point. The same would go for guys in pro shape at that point in training, except for the fact that they wouldn't fatigue half as fast, and its fatigue that leads to sloppiness. They'd be able to at least focus for longer periods of time to maintain good form and take directions because in pro level shape, your mind and body are BOTH stronger.

Eh, though I don't totally agree still I think you have the high ground here. My baseball analogy was one of those things that was much more powerfully convincing in my head.

When people see combat sport arts performed at that level, they assume that if they take some lessons that they will be equally formidable as the men that they see on television. What they don't realize is that unless they're trained to the conditioning level of those men, their techniques won't be very effective at all. That's why the first UFC's made the switch from Joe's to Pro's. The fighting looked less sloppy using Pro's. The matches went on longer because the Pro fighters didn't exhaust as fast. They kept better form and technique because they weren't wheezing and panting. They became bout fighters, or men who fought for multiple rounds instead of who got incapacitated fastest.

Well that's their own stupid assumption which I won't defend, but it's the same across the board. There's always gonna be that group that thinks their first month of Kung Fu/BJJ/MMA/Judo/RBSD/(insert martial art here) is going to give them Jedi powers. But, I think you'd find if you took a sampling of those who had been at it as little as two years in any martial art, that most were not deluding themselves and were very practical and honest about their motivations.

[Sagacious Lu]

Yeah but I think I'm great and you're not and blah blah blah blah blah

Look, you can brag about how wonderful you think your posts on the internet are (I'm sure they make your mother proud) and you can insult me personally all you want. That still doesn't change the fact that you don't have any idea what pulling guard is despite having just given us all a lecture about it. How many of your oh so wonderful posts are about things that you are as ignorant about as you are pulling guard? Every word I type might not be a gem of martial wisdom but at least I'm not pretending to be something I'm not

[bigred389]

I missed this originally....

Uke, whenever I have an issue, its usually over a statement you make that is either uninformed (the pulling gaurd thing) I dont care how effective BJJ is, they dont pull gaurd (remember the real definition I gave you) and I wanted you to stop spouting off about that. I'm sure you wouldnt appreciate it if I went around posting that WW2 combatives people, or whichever system/blend/thing you train is, involved you falling to your back. You wouldn't appreciate it cause its not true, just as its not true in BJJ, very few fights (mma or street) involve BJJ oriented people choosing to be on their back, I can think of one MMA fight, thats it. And as we all know, it was a tactic he could use in that fight, I doubt he would do it in a bar. (It's dean lister btw, versus Sakara).

The only other thing I've taken offense to is when you agreed with someone (thus making it as your stance on the issue as well) when they called MMA something along the lines of a brawl, or non-skilled fight, or something like that.

Which it clearly isnt.

Third, I may be a dumb little kid, but I reckon thats better than being a bitter old man. And I cant be that dumb all the time, because I've gotten one or two reps from you in the past, and maybe even one or two, or cant count how many from people you agree with 90% of the time. Most noticeably Boar.

Anyway, I'm gonna go do a 150 burpees, then who knows what other form of challenging body weight exercise, then go to bed. Make sure u polish that knife of yours up real good, who knows, you might need it one day.

Ugh...memories of tonight's workout...you just made me throw up a little in my mouth.