victim mentality...

[Tom Yum]

The hard part (for me) is remembering that they have free will and need to continue to CHOOSE to move past it.

I know. You are correct.

But I'd expect the same from my friends. You have to understand each other's minds and be able to motivate each other when you are down.

Seeing him slowly transform is amazing.

[Little Apple]

Brewer: When you put in that it "just one tool in the box", it makes more sense. Also, you misunderstand me I think, and it stems from you and I having a different definition of the word "compassion." I don't believe it's the same as "kindness." I feel that Compassion is rooted in love and understanding, and when you love and Understand someone, you are aware that sometimes they need a hug, and sometimes they need a good sharp kick in the rear. It's not about making them Feel better, but Be better. And that said I 100% agree with you that it can be a ruthless process.

Tom and TL: Interesting little conversation. I'd say that the answer is compassion: Love them and want them to Be better, and have the understanding and balls to know sometime you let them walk their path, and sometimes you hand them their head 'cause they're screwing up big time. That's what friends are for, and statisticly their like, 70% better at it than a counsler I think I've heard.

[treelizard]

Tom and TL: Interesting little conversation. I'd say that the answer is compassion: Love them and want them to Be better, and have the understanding and balls to know sometime you let them walk their path, and sometimes you hand them their head 'cause they're screwing up big time. That's what friends are for, and statisticly their like, 70% better at it than a counsler I think I've heard.

It's just that someone I loved was killed in an unprovoked attack in a bar, and we debated pacifism versus realism CONSTANTLY, in fact he even said I'd changed his mind about it. He even went to a self-defense seminar with me. Other people have choice and free will and really need to be the ones to decide to act on their newfound ideas or to keep doing the same old tired thing.

[Tom Yum]

Tom and TL: Interesting little conversation. I'd say that the answer is compassion: Love them and want them to Be better, and have the understanding and balls to know sometime you let them walk their path, and sometimes you hand them their head 'cause they're screwing up big time. That's what friends are for, and statisticly their like, 70% better at it than a counsler I think I've heard.

Nice. I agree with you on friends acting as counselors, especially a really good friend.

Sometimes friends want to be in a dump, but you won't let them. Sometimes they will argue against you pulling them out and it wears you down too, so you take a break for a while and then start the same thing over again...

This is hard for me to comprehend because when I get down, I fight to get back up. I might slip, but I get angrier and more determined. Some people just don't have this; instead they just continue the slide.

If you're all sliding, it get's really messed up.

[Garland]

Sometimes friends want to be in a dump, but you won't let them. Sometimes they will argue against you pulling them out and it wears you down too, so you take a break for a while and then start the same thing over again...

This is hard for me to comprehend because when I get down, I fight to get back up. I might slip, but I get angrier and more determined. Some people just don't have this; instead they just continue the slide.

If you're all sliding, it get's really messed up.

There's no "right" way to deal with something bad happening, the only important thing is getting through it, somehow, and being able to live through it with it doing the least amount of wear on you.

It's natural to grieve and to feel shitty, and it's very unfortunate that people don't take time to actually do these things...I mean, if a family member dies, most jobs and schools will only let you out for 3 days or so.

I think that people should accept what they're feeling, take time to go through it, and by doing so be able to come out of it, and resolve it fully.

Sorry...I'm not very articulate tonight...I hope that all came out right.

[treelizard]

I agree with you Garland, that grieving and processing is definitely a good thing, and only the individual knows if they are indulging in it or not. But I think indulging makes it worse...

[Tom Yum]

I agree with you Garland, that grieving and processing is definitely a good thing, and only the individual knows if they are indulging in it or not. But I think indulging makes it worse...

Thanks. Indulging does make it worse.

Again, the reason why I support having being a good friend or having good friends who will help pull you to safety.

[GQchris]

everyone has things they struggle with... this life is insanity, total insanity... and there are times when life is just a bag of horseshit and I wonder how I go on.. I think maybe I keep in mind that one day all this struggling and suffering will end..

until then I will spend time doing things that will keep me sane... at the center of it all for me is the Great I Am, and then--Martial Arts, intense training, my family and friends, blatantly flirting with beautiful women that I meet...

[Tom Yum]

everyone has things they struggle with... this life is insanity, total insanity... and there are times when life is just a bag of horseshit and I wonder how I go on.. I think maybe I keep in mind that one day all this struggling and suffering will end..

until then I will spend time doing things that will keep me sane... at the center of it all for me is the Great I Am, and then--Martial Arts, intense training, my family and friends, blatantly flirting with beautiful women that I meet...

Sometimes its all about the approach. You've got to be able to roll with things and laugh when you can.

[Little Apple]

Wow, you leave for Easter weekend and you miss a lot of posts. Happy Easter BTW everyone!

TL: Yes, when it comes down to it, people must change themselves and every victory is compleatly theirs. However, as friends it is in our power to influence them as we are part of thier life. And as Spiderman's Uncle Ben said, "With power comes responsibility."

To all those other posts, you guys made me think of another Holly Wood quote: "The hardest thing to do in this world is just to live in it." -Buffy

But don't get down guys, think of something sunshiny Happy Easter!

[kukri]

victum mentality...society and Catholic church put down women...Women put women down...This is truley a subject that goes deep...about how people put people down so they can feel better...or someone grows and forgets to pull the other one up with them...It's all about energy...sexual energy...find a healthy man or a woman and Ill show you a man who does not need sex and never call any one a B... and I then again show me a woman who has not been touched by sexual abuse...i mean boys who were circumsized where abused...that is to say pain was inflicted without there consent so there mind may not know it was for a better cause...this truely goes to the philosophy of the martial arts sytems ...to control not to act apon ones emotions...as i am sure some have figured out we are not here for pleasure we are here to learn...pleasure comes from being able to alright with self then the pleasures of life are true and pure of heart...

[treelizard]

First of all, I just want to say that I am absolutely opposed to circumcision, it's one of the places where I part ways with my religion, though at least in Judaism they put the baby boy on a loved one's lap and give him wine, as opposed to hospitals that strap down his arms and legs and refuse to give him anasthesia and until relatively recently did not believe that baby boys felt pain.

As far as Catholicism, well I think it's one of the few religions that actually has a place for women, try as they might to suppress Her that pesky virgin keeps rising back up. And I agree, women do put women down. What to do about it? I work to make changes in the way I interact with women, to be a uniter, not a divider.

Mike, I think the approach you're taking is pretty radical, and I'm not sure if I'm misreading, it's pretty hard to tell. I totally agree on taking responsibility for one's choices and decisions and responses to circumstances. But I refuse to take responsibility or lay responsibility on a person who has been harmed. Or in other words, while I agree that every situation that I come across is something I have absolute control over, by virtue of the fact that I can choose how to respond to it, and I agree that this is an empowering frame of mind, because I can change situations that affect me... I don't think I necessarily created those situations or need to take ultimate responsibility for them being brought about into being. There are thousands of years of collective history, other people's childhood issues, chemical influences and other such things that may create circumstances behind other people's actions, just as they do for my own actions, and I can only take responsibility for my own actions and choices.

What I tell survivors is, "It was absolutely not your fault that this happened to you" AND "Here are some things that you can do that will make it less likely to happen in the future." I mean isn’t there a fine line between blaming infants for being circumcised (or whatever happened to them when they were children) to simply telling them it’s time to move past it and giving them tools to be able to do just that? The Holocaust survivors that I’ve spoken with have never said they take responsibility for Hitler’s actions (or the rest of the world’s), just that they chose to move beyond it, to find hope.

How is the philosophy you’re espousing different from that of women who believe that because their boyfriends beat them it is somehow their fault and they are in control of the BG’s behavior? Telling someone in that mindset that it IS their fault seems like a bad idea. If a woman, or a man, is in control of his/her own actions, it would stand to reason that other people are in control of their own actions as well, and the responsibility for other people’s actions wouldn’t fall on a second party.

I'm pretty sure the way I read what you wrote isn't the way you intended it, but am having trouble...maybe with the wording? Not sure...

[Tom Yum]

How is the philosophy you’re espousing different from that of women who believe that because their boyfriends beat them it is somehow their fault and they are in control of the BG’s behavior? Telling someone in that mindset that it IS their fault seems like a bad idea. If a woman, or a man, is in control of his/her own actions, it would stand to reason that other people are in control of their own actions as well, and the responsibility for other people’s actions wouldn’t fall on a second party.

I'm pretty sure the way I read what you wrote isn't the way you intended it, but am having trouble...maybe with the wording? Not sure...

The women can choose to end the relationship and move on. Someone whose going to beat them isn't acting out of love nor kindness.

[treelizard]

The women can choose to end the relationship and move on. Someone whose going to beat them isn't acting out of love nor kindness.

That much is obvious.

[LoneHusky]

That much is obvious.

But he's such a good dancer.... I can change him.