victim mentality...

[Tom Yum]

LOL!!! I think they are more likely to be nice, and whine a lot about why the assholes get all the girls, because it is not in their nature to be abusive or mean. Then they will sit and listen to their female friends whine about their fucked up relationship they wont' do anything about, because they feel if they do this long enough, the gal will suddenly wake up, leave her boyfriend who doesn't deserve her, and run to him. Which will never happen. If he would just directly ask her out, she would say no, and then he could move on to asking out a NICE GIRL who will say, "Why yes, I would love to World Extreme Cagefighting match with you! I thought you'd never ask!" But instead he plays this passive game with the odds against him, and doesn't even realize it..

Who said anything about hoping that someone will date you for listening to their problems?

You're supporting a friend and get experience (free of charge) understanding one of the most mystical, hidden and contradictory things in the universe:

The female mind.

They want to date guys that will call them on their shit, not guys they can walk all over.

This isn't new news to me, but it will certainly help out other guys on this site.

[treelizard]

LOL, okay but most people I know who like listening to these problems have hidden ulterior motives.

So what's your $.02, do guys become assholes b/c they think it'll help them find women?

And btw, I love MMA, so I didn't mean anything negative by that comment.

[Tom Yum]

LOL, okay but most people I know who like listening to these problems have hidden ulterior motives.

Its not a hidden ulterior motive if you openly disclose that you hope to learn by helping out. Man didn't create the female mind, so its a job to figure it out.

So what's your $.02, do guys become assholes b/c they think it'll help them find women?.

May I use Lira?

To answer your question: no.

And btw, I love MMA, so I didn't mean anything negative by that comment.

Of course you didn't.

[treelizard]

[QUOTE=Tom Yum]Its not a hidden ulterior motive if you openly disclose that you hope to learn by helping out. Man didn't create the female mind, so its a job to figure it out.[QUOTE]

HA! You will never figure out the mind of woman!! (*maniacal laughter*) We are all crazy in DIFFERENT WAYS!

May I use Lira?

Yes, or any currency you have available.

[Tom Yum]

HA! You will never figure out the mind of woman!! (*maniacal laughter*) We are all crazy in DIFFERENT WAYS! .

I know

Better if a woman has more of the 'good' crazies, than the other kinds....

Yes, or any currency you have available.

I've been told I'm a decent cook?

Is that currency?

[treelizard]

Yes, food is currency, but since I only asked for two cents, I'm not sure what that would amount to. Maybe like a raisin.

So what's crazier? Whining about something you don't want to change instead of changing it? Or listening to someone whine about something they don't want to change and thinking you can help them change it?

[Tom Yum]

Yes, food is currency, but since I only asked for two cents, I'm not sure what that would amount to. Maybe like a raisin.?

Note to self: Charming, cheap date, watches her figure....

Theoretically, you've made it onto the top lists on most guys' books.

So what's crazier? Whining about something you don't want to change instead of changing it? Or listening to someone whine about something they don't want to change and thinking you can help them change it?

I think you're crazy.......Just because.

[treelizard]

HA!!!

So if guys only like crazy chicks, do you think that encourages women to be more crazy?

[Tom Yum]

HA!!!
So if guys only like crazy chicks, do you think that encourages women to be more crazy?

Nope.

Some guys dig 'good' crazy chicks though, but not all.

[Art of Soccer]

Somewhere along the line you think you're probably be better off with a guy and his computer, he's sorta there but his minds always on the game, some way, some how. You become a trinket... loved enough to feel noticed but not to enough to feel needed.
Then there are the quiet Artist... or the loud ones... but they all have thier own issues... I think the whole worlds derranged sometimes.

But I think a girl needs to make a concious choice to get out and change her habbits, realize it is her fault for staying, but not her fault that things are going downhill.

Personally I stay away from bars... I just have this feeling that anyone in there isn't too serious... or honest. And come in there with problems I shouldn't be required to solve... A self imposed stereotype I may come to regret.

[Tom Yum]

Somewhere along the line you think you're probably be better off with a guy and his computer, he's sorta there but his minds always on the game, some way, some how. You become a trinket... loved enough to feel noticed but not to enough to feel needed.
Then there are the quiet Artist... or the loud ones... but they all have thier own issues... I think the whole worlds derranged sometimes.

But I think a girl needs to make a concious choice to get out and change her habbits, realize it is her fault for staying, but not her fault that things are going downhill.

Personally I stay away from bars... I just have this feeling that anyone in there isn't too serious... or honest. And come in there with problems I shouldn't be required to solve... A self imposed stereotype I may come to regret.

That was lyrical and very beautiful. I guess the Islands even affect the way you write.

[treelizard]

hey you may want to check this out: http://www.fieldguide.com/

Then there are the quiet Artist... or the loud ones... but they all have thier own issues... I think the whole worlds derranged sometimes.

[Tom Yum]

hey you may want to check this out: http://www.fieldguide.com/

Funny...lol. Why do you need a field guide...

[Little Apple]

I want to go to bed soon, so this might be shorter than I want, if anything's unclear, just ask.

One issue of these types of people (and they are usually women) is Passive-agressive disorder. The reason theripists don't help is because it's one of the hardest things to deal with out there and even if they know how, a theripist usually doesn't want to put the effort in, sorry to say. Not that that's true of all.
Anyway, let me define Passive-agressiveness. Some people think it means "manipulative" and that's not quite true. There are a few tell tale symptoms you will notice in Passive-agressive people
1)When someone else is in pain, angry, or uncomfortable, it's their fault, and they need to fix it
2)Them harming someone intentionally is the worst offence, so they will bottle things up till they explode, and then feel bad, or they will stomp around and give looks instead of addressing the issue because they're "not allowed" to talk about it: it might hurt someone's feelings
3)They will avoid being responsible for themselves and their well-being or actions, this means they will play games to coax people into giving them what they want instead of asking, and they will avoid making choices where ever possible ("Would you like a ride or will you walk?" "Oh, either way, you pick.")
4)In extream cases: Because they don't take responsibility for themselves, when they are uncomfortable it's everyone elses fault and they are doing it on purpose. AND because they "aren't allowed" to hurt feelings, they will complain about it to everyone except the person they have an issue with

This is learned as a defence mechanism from dealling with abusive or anal-retentive people. It's from the other person always playing the victim and blaming this person, and so they can't confront it without some form of punishment to themselves.

This is how you deal with it:
1)Be around them a lot so you can do this consistently
2)Get on them to express themselves, ESPECIALY when it's something they don't want to say, and then give positive reinforcement
3)Don't let them pawn their decisions off on you, and give positive reinforcement when they decide things, no matter the decision
4)Ignore the tantrums that are their learned way of getting pitty - and therefore - what they want without asking.

It will go like this:
-You will start
-It will take a while to sink in
-They will start getting mad at you and blaming you for their mood
-They will start blowing up at you regularly
-They will finally learn to express themselves healthily (only if you keep going)

Remember this is only one facet of the abusive pattern problem, but hey, one step at a time right?

-Night Everyone!

[Tom Yum]

Great advice, little apple.