Wrestling as martial art

[GQchris]

I like Boxing as a Martial Art better.

[bodhisattva]

wrestling as martial art - great basis for BJJ

Before I started kickboxing, I was a wrestler for six years. Most of my life, when people asked me what martial arts training I had, I would tell them about the kickboxing and side submission stuff I did.

But recently I've been attending BJJ class, and I've noticed something very cool there -- I'm in almost complete control of when things get taken to the ground. My takedowns, balance, and power are a lot more honed, and while I'm used to 'breaking things off' and trying multiple angles of attack before I finally settle into a full takedown, most of the guys there just don't have that expanded mentality of taking others to the ground. I've also noticed that save for the most experienced there, I have better awareness of my position and my opponents position when we're rolling around. It's still too early to tell, but I have a feeling that save exceptions, when wrestlers mix it up with Jiu Jitsu guys, it's ultimately the wrestler who choses when and if it goes to the ground.

I know; there're lots of BJJ guys out there who train takedowns very well, many BJJ guys who have rounded themselves out as wrestlers; I agree with the general consensus of the previous "Wrestler Advantages over BJJ" thread--it depends on the person, not the art. Still it's generally agreed that wrestlers have a very strong and reliable framework for takedowns.

Since this has all happened, I've re-evaluated how I consider wrestling as relating to martial arts. While there aren't many moves that can be taken as submission moves in wrestling, there are plenty of takedowns that are very effective on the street, and more effective still in a MMA context. Wrestling, I think, is best considered an untapped martial arts--something which while trained in its sport does not offer the needed benefits to qualify itself, if crosstrained, if taken out of the college/high school wrestling setting, and reworked into the context of a fighter, it then translates into great effectiveness. If you teach a kid to wrestle through high school, give him six months of training designed to show him the mounts, ground and pound game, I think you'll have on your hands a capable and on-their-way student in MMA. While I wouldn't say he then knows all he should (as of, that student's too limited in their striking and submission), that wrestling has certainly given him a sense of work ethic, attitude and skill to compete and grow qualifies it for a worthy martial art.

I'm unsure how other people think of wrestling though, as a martial art. Obviously it's not a very expanded art, but what it teaches rivals the best of similar framework in any martial art insitution around.

I like when wrestlers come around. The reason is because their art is all about taking POSITION. Even if they give their back up a lot in their art, they can quickly be taught NOT TO give up their back. Once they GET THAT they become very good at positional BJJ. And remember, in BJJ it is all about position before submission.

I think wrestling is one of the very best martial arts offered in America. Some MMA guys dis wrestlers because they are easy to submit, and they give up their back. But in my experience, that's only true for a very short time. Wrestlers learn quickly and willingly adjust their game when necessary.

[l0rca]

(Bump)

Let's see if we could get some discussion here.

What has wrestling done for you? Has it single-handedly gotten you out of trouble? how does it complement other training you have; what wrestling moves are in your arsenal? How has wrestling helped you prepare for other martial arts?

When I was a wrestler, about 13 years old, I got into a street fight with a stranger on a bike. He gave my hot-headed father the finger as we were driving by and my father had me out of the van to fight. The kid was definitely older than me, I would guess around 15 or 16. When he put his hands up to box me, he was moving very erratically. The first time he closed the distance to hit me with some wild punch, I went straight into a double leg and hauled him over. As soon as he hit the concrete I mounted him and put in a reverse half-nelson, jamming my shoulder into his throat. He was suffocating, and yelled that he gave up. I got off him then, but he suddenly hit me as soon as he regained. He didn't get me good, and we were back up. I went in to get him again, but he was much more cautious, and landed a few blows. I tried a double leg again but it didn't work, and after that I said that I had enough, and we drove back home.

Years later in high school, I got into a fight where I was able to takedown someone with a double leg again. That time I remembered my past mistake though, and instead of suffocating the person from the reverse half, I headbutted repeatedly until school security yanked me away.

The second fight, I was much more confident though, as I was kickboxing at that point.

[jonbey]

I am sure there was a thread a while back regarding "the best martial art skills" or something (vague memory, cannot find thread) and it was concluded (possibly) that learning to both wrestle and box well was probably as good as it gets.

What is really good to hear is that all those years of wrestling have given you an advantage in your knew club. Hopefully that advantage will continue for many years, if not throughout your BJJ career.

[Tant01]

Some good observations there.

[l0rca]

Before I started kickboxing, I was a wrestler for six years. Most of my life, when people asked me what martial arts training I had, I would tell them about the kickboxing and side submission stuff I did.

But recently I've been attending BJJ class, and I've noticed something very cool there -- I'm in almost complete control of when things get taken to the ground. My takedowns, balance, and power are a lot more honed, and while I'm used to 'breaking things off' and trying multiple angles of attack before I finally settle into a full takedown, most of the guys there just don't have that expanded mentality of taking others to the ground. I've also noticed that save for the most experienced there, I have better awareness of my position and my opponents position when we're rolling around. It's still too early to tell, but I have a feeling that save exceptions, when wrestlers mix it up with Jiu Jitsu guys, it's ultimately the wrestler who choses when and if it goes to the ground.

I know; there're lots of BJJ guys out there who train takedowns very well, many BJJ guys who have rounded themselves out as wrestlers; I agree with the general consensus of the previous "Wrestler Advantages over BJJ" thread--it depends on the person, not the art. Still it's generally agreed that wrestlers have a very strong and reliable framework for takedowns.

Since this has all happened, I've re-evaluated how I consider wrestling as relating to martial arts. While there aren't many moves that can be taken as submission moves in wrestling, there are plenty of takedowns that are very effective on the street, and more effective still in a MMA context. Wrestling, I think, is best considered an untapped martial arts--something which while trained in its sport does not offer the needed benefits to qualify itself, if crosstrained, if taken out of the college/high school wrestling setting, and reworked into the context of a fighter, it then translates into great effectiveness. If you teach a kid to wrestle through high school, give him six months of training designed to show him the mounts, ground and pound game, I think you'll have on your hands a capable and on-their-way student in MMA. While I wouldn't say he then knows all he should (as of, that student's too limited in their striking and submission), that wrestling has certainly given him a sense of work ethic, attitude and skill to compete and grow qualifies it for a worthy martial art.

I'm unsure how other people think of wrestling though, as a martial art. Obviously it's not a very expanded art, but what it teaches rivals the best of similar framework in any martial art insitution around.