Senator Obama VS Senator Clinton

[jubaji]

Jubs, do you watch fox news a lot, i do, i like to see what they say, the points you raise are pretty much straight of that.
Who is these enemys in the middle east?

and since im an idiot and i have beaten you and out argued you consistently throughout this thread, how does it feel to be beaten by an idiot?

Nice to see you are getting your money's worth on that crack you are smoking, idiot.



Whenever they let you out of detox you can let me know how it is you don't think there are any enemies of America in the Muslim world (which is what you said at first, but stick to the Middle East if its easier for your one brain cell to remember).

[Ghost]

Nice to see you are getting your money's worth on that crack you are smoking, idiot.



Whenever they let you out of detox you can let me know how it is you don't think there are any enemies of America in the Muslim world (which is what you said at first, but stick to the Middle East if its easier for your one brain cell to remember).

there are muslim extremists that are enemies but there arent any governments as such that are enemies.

What do you think they want to do exactly? and why?
You know the reason they attack america is because of its foreign policy, i thought that was quite clear.
You dont want to be taking a tougher stance now, you need to sort out the issue. Its americas fault in the first place, that is clear. However, America does NOT deserve what happened. But it happened for a reason.
And that reason is in the middle east and needs sorting.

You dont seem to understand that the middle east want Obama and its not so they can take over america or some other nonsense.
Have you even been to the middle east before? you should try it sometime its really quite nice.
They want someone they can respect and not lose face to in the process.
They can compromise to a white republican like McCain, you should really try to go to the middle east and understand their culture. They can compromise with a democrat with the name Hussein as he can be passed off as half one of them. They know it, he knows it and it would work.

I feel like im telling basics to a child.

[Ghost]

Ghost, why do you bother using logic and actual words against a guy like Jubaji who just curses and swears like a 20 year old punk? Really, why bother? You have seen this dolt's responses, all filled with rage and venom. I mean, you are making logical points. It's a waste of your time with a cretin that can only hurl baby-ish insults. He only SAYS he has a degree in philosophy and is a teacher or professor or what ever the **** he is claiming he is. But what he REALLY is, is an internet troll....in the classic sense!

It's too bad someone hacked this site and got rid of all the past posts. Because you would see that in almost 8000 posts, this whack-job teenager who also goes by the user name "Matbla" has said nothing, offered nothing, and at every step of the way has proven himself to be a super troll. I don't have to even bother proving my point, because any one of this mental patient, living at home with the parents, budwieser drinking, Rush Limbaugh listening menace's posts proves exactly what I say.

I know, its a bit silly.
I was hoping he might actually say something at some stage.

[Ghost]

alright mike, will have a read properly tomorrow going to post crap around the forum for now.

[jubaji]

Have you ever voted for a democrat? No, I did not think so. I have made my point. Actually, your voting record makes it for me.

Do you not realize what you are doing, or do you just not care, D.I.?

[jubaji]

there are muslim extremists that are enemies but there arent any governments as such that are enemies.

What do you think they want to do exactly? and why?
You know the reason they attack america is because of its foreign policy, i thought that was quite clear.
You dont want to be taking a tougher stance now, you need to sort out the issue. Its americas fault in the first place, that is clear. However, America does NOT deserve what happened. But it happened for a reason.
And that reason is in the middle east and needs sorting.

You dont seem to understand that the middle east want Obama and its not so they can take over america or some other nonsense.
Have you even been to the middle east before? you should try it sometime its really quite nice.
They want someone they can respect and not lose face to in the process.
They can compromise to a white republican like McCain, you should really try to go to the middle east and understand their culture. They can compromise with a democrat with the name Hussein as he can be passed off as half one of them. They know it, he knows it and it would work.

I feel like im telling basics to a child.

I'm sure you "feel" like a lot of things because you can't recognize what a fucking moron you are. Seriously, you are about a half a step behind D.I. in that regard.

So, your particular, prejudiced, ridiculous political opinions are what is "clear," and you know what everyone in the entire Middle East (again, you seem to gloss over your shift from the Muslim world in general) wants in the US presidential election and why? Further, you think that what 'they' want (and of course your own personal racial prejudices) should be the basis upon which we choose our next leader? How the hell do you function on a day to day basis with such an infirm grasp on reality?

You are just flat-out stupid.

[jubaji]

Ghost, why do you bother using logic.

D.I., you gave up the right to even use the word "logic" long ago. STFU, idiot.

[jubaji]

That's you republicanos territory.


you people keep talking about "qualifications" and I call BS on that. this has nothing to do with qualifications,
It is my belief that even if the republican party puts forth the most retarded candidate possible, and the democrats put up a genius, you guys STILL would not vote for him.

So why not try being honest about things for a while?

I swear, you guys are like these so called "creation scientists" who already know the answer, and then go ahead and find "facts" which support your theory.


that does not fit the paradigm that all democrats are hippy commie liberals.

Get it?

Psssst! You're doing it again, D.I.

[jubaji]

Based on the tone of your posts, now and in the past, I stand on my statement that I don't believe you would ever vote for any democrat unless it was Zell Miller.

Not only does D.I. just make shit up rather than responding to what people say, but even in the face of direct contradiction by the people involved he chooses to cling to his little fantasies regardless of the truth.

Which is why D.I., ghost, and the like are not worth engaging in the kind of serious discussion Mike keeps trying to engage in. They are monumentally stupid, and no amount of discourse or compilation of facts is going to crack the wall of ignorance and irrationality surrounding them.

In short, Mr. Airheadson.

[DickHardman]

mr arieson, i like your posts, but damn, you really are one of those liberals who is so far on the left that you really end up on the right. mr arieson has good intentions, i can see that. he wants to better america and wants solutions to our problems. however, he wants them so bad that he does not realize how fanatical and narrow minded its starting to make him, similar to the berkley protesters that want peace and tolerance so bad that they are willing to physically attack others who do not see eye to eye with them. dont fall into that ditch mr arieson, you know better.


also, i am once again very amused by jubaji and how that self proclaimed "linguist" and school teacher cant spit out anything more eloquent than a couple swear words and the smiley face thats flipping the bird, which is supposed to somehow be a change of pace from his usual one liners that he ends with the "rolling eyes" smiley that people like tom yum and harball think is so hilarious, even though they have seen jubaji use it to compliment the same four or five one liners he has repeated 8,000 thousand times now.

[jubaji]

Jubaji, I disagree with Ghost's point of view, but I haven't found him to be disagreeable as a person. Actually, he's the only one so far that's actually attempted to put some rationale behind what he's saying.

The guy whose basic premise is that we should choose our president based on his middle name and skin tone? The guy who believes the rest of the world has a say in our electoral process? That guy? Spin it all you want, but that is what he came into this disucssion with; superficialities, racism, and presumptuousness. Everything else has been an add-on to try and make him look less the fool. And what else have we been treated to? Ridiculous dead-end arguments that experience isn't as important as a person's middle name and speaking style? Fan-boy conjecture about who he 'believes' is more intelligent? More illogical speculation about what the "Muslim world" thinks, wants, respects, and the notion that such speculation should drive our choice of president? Ignoring or denying obvious and well-documented contradictions and short-comings? Come on.

You want to have a discussion but at the end of the day, you are having it with yourself because ghost is about a half-step behind D.I. on the Stupid Scale. Sorry.

[Liberty]

[Quote] Since Liberty is inept, incapable, and very possibly mentally impaired along with his prejudices... [QUOTE]

Couldn't resist coming back and looking over the posts. Gotta say Mike, and this just may prove the above, but the above comments and a few others you've made about me has me in stitches! I guess I'm amused by how serious you got about this, the name calling and all.

I know this may not be your cup of tea but I just don't hold to Republican ideals. Qualifications are important but the fact is that both partys hold to different, opposing ideals for solving problems. I could not vote Republican from that basis. Again, I'm aware you don't agree, and I'm fine with that.

Happy Easter Kiddo..

[Liberty]

Yes, I am serious about it and I do take it seriously. Political debate is an important part of good citizenship to me. More than that, it's a career field I fully intend to enter within a few years. So when I point out that your views as they've been expressed here are bigoted and ignorant, that's a truth - a fact. That it's entertaining to you is good, because hey, everyone needs to laugh. As for name calling and "ribbing," it was you who began that exchange. The fact that you tend to hide behind those kinds of insults with mock humility doesn't change what you were trying to accomplish. it just makes you more dishonest about it.

It was also you that folded like a lawn chair when faced with actual facts.

Since everyone appears to have wandered away from this, I'll tell you what it is about Obama's candidacy that appeals to me. For one, I support a progressive tax. Arieson, are you listening? I believe that taxes should be scaled in proportion to wealth. Where I part company with the Democrats is that I do not believe it should be a flat ratio. I also do not believe that we should say we support a free market and then run it as if it were a command economy. We can't say we support the supply and demand reality of the market and at the same time try to control the economy from the Executive office. In case you missed the last century or two, that's exactly what's brough down virtually every command economy on earth. It's also why the ones that still exist (North Korea, for example) are only alive because of the charity of others. As such, we have to let the economy do what it's supposed to, and we need to give both supply side and demand side incentives. To me, that means a progressive tax that isn't designed to penalize the rich, nor to give undue relief to the poor. It should be moderate in scale in order to give the poor a little more money to spend each month, to put the burden of taxation on those most able to pay, and also fair in acknowledging that we are all citizens who enjoy the same opportunities and we all need to contribute. Obama seems to share that belief, although his economic plan is a little too enabling for my taste. I'm not a fan of entitlement and I think it weakens society, and so I'm not 100% behind Obama.

I also agree with Obama in that we should reward companies that keep jobs here in the US. However, I think he again makes too radical a stance on it. Obama borders on isolationism in his desire to provide incentives to US-only corporations. His views are unrealistic in a global economy. McCain, however, swings vastly in the opposite direction. McCain tends to be too global for my taste, and doesn't protect American workers enough. The "correct" approach, in my view, is somewhere in the middle.

Likewise - immigration. I'm for legal guest worker programs and allowing immigrants - even illegal ones - into colleges and other schools. I think they should have to pay out of state tuition since they're here illegally (as in "not legal residents"), but I don't see any benefit in keeping the population stupid.

Look Libby, you apparently got into this because you like to argue and you saw it as a chance to shit on some Republicans because you just don't like "them." As if they all prescribe to the very same views across the boards. You weren't judging people individually then, and you still aren't. You see a party, not a man or a candidate, and for that, you're incapable of having an intelligent discussion on the topic. This is a discussion about two candidates and their ideas, policies, track records, and character. If you insist on judging them by anything other than who they are and what they stand for as individuals, then you're no better than a talk show editorial. It's not discussion.

If you'd like to talk about things in terms of the individuals who are most likely going to be on our next presidential ballot, I'm always game. But if you're just going to generalize everything the candidates are about because of what party they belong to, you're frankly a waste of time. So if it's all the same, stay true to your orignial little temper tantrum and skulk away to go look up some more Bruce Lee trivia or offer up something worthy of actual discussion. Either way, it's cool. I'm sure Bruce Lee trivia has a lot more value than this to a lot of people, and there's got to be at least one person out there with a burning desire to know more about why Bruce had only one testicle. You're just the guy to look that kind of stuff up. But I think you're out of your depth here.

Either way, it's cool. Have to say, if you remain the outspoken guy you are you're going to make one heck of an interesing candidate. Hopefully you'll stick to this aspect of yourself and not sell out once you do run. For, though I don't always agree with nor savor your crudeness (sometimes it is hilarious to imagine you pissed off to high heaven), I do appreciate it's real.

[Liberty]

Yeah, I'm apt to be a very Teddy Roosevelt / Andrew Jackson type politician. I'll speak my mind, let people know where I stand, and treat them according to their own merits rather than making mass generalizations about them because of where they're from or what party they belong to. I'll be honest and candid when I can be, and I'll do whatever I can do to make sure I'm prepared to intelligently discuss whatever's on the table.

Of course, I'll more than likely be a Republican, so I guess your mind is already made up, eh?

Who knows? What do you expect from a kid - that he remain there even later in his life? Didn't think so. You've got my vote. Then again, in twenty years Icould wind up the Obama to your Mccain - LOL! Whoops, left myself wide open on that one. Oh well, you deserve a freebie, have at it.

[Liberty]

Speaking of a freebie, Mike, check this out - darn it, now we have to hash it out, oh why didn't I keep this to myself...

http://www.axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show/id/14377