Running

[elliotNess]

I wanna ask everybody on this thread, Does running aggravate your knees or intefere with your kicking practice?

[Tom Yum]

I wanna ask everybody on this thread, Does running aggravate your knees or intefere with your kicking practice?

A little bit. Been running for 8 weeks. For the first 3- 4 weeks, running was hell. Most of the pressure I felt was in the shins, but there was a tiny bit in the knees.

The pressure on my shins is nearly gone and my knees only feel it if I run more than 4 miles.

Your build may also come into play. I'm not huge, but I'm heavier than most runner types - could explain why I was having those pains at the start.

[treelizard]

If you can figure out how to run using your quads instead of your calves, it is much more low impact. The trick is to step from the side then front of your foot to the back, instead of back to front.

[elliotNess]

What about when it is time to kick; do you have any knee pain? Say the day after a run?

[treelizard]

I do FMA so not a whole lot of kicking involved, but most of my knee pain that I've had has been from incorrect weightlifting.

What about when it is time to kick; do you have any knee pain? Say the day after a run?

[Tom Yum]

What about when it is time to kick; do you have any knee pain? Say the day after a run?

No pain when its time to kick. I kick thai pads and bags with no problem. I also do knee strikes as well.

The reason why I don't have a lot of knee pain when I kick is that I don't throw a lot of snap kicks, like the kind you learn in shotokan or tae kwon do.

Snap kicks put even more pressure on your knee and if your leg muscles are not balanced, you can get pain in your knee.

I also stretch and warm up quite a bit.

[eXcessiveForce]

When I was a runner and TKD instructor, I trained 5 days a week about 4 hours a night. I ran 7 days a week about 3 miles at 6:30 pace. At one point I did get knee pain but I got better shoes with insoles and it helped. I never had a problem with kicking unless I didn't stretch or cool down properly or If I pushed for 6 miles and was sore the next day, But kicking wasn't really much different than walking on those days, It hurt but I could do it.

If you are doing distance you want to run heal to toe, you are asking for big trouble any other way for long distance.

Sprints should be on the toes.


Make sure to stretch after running. Running has a tendency to shorten hamstrings.

I would not worry much about kicking once you are used to running.

[elliotNess]

Thanks, all of your replies were a big help.

[treelizard]

[QUOTE=eXcessiveForce]
If you are doing distance you want to run heal to toe, you are asking for big trouble any other way for long distance. [QUOTE]

Ooh, I will disagree on that. This is what CAUSES injuries...

[eXcessiveForce]

What do you basis this opinion on?

[treelizard]

What do you basis this opinion on?

A lot of conversation with massage therapists and runners, personal experience, and some research on Native American running styles. They teach you how to walk/run properly in a lot of classes... Tracker School calls it "foxwalking", WarriorSchool calls it "power gait", OnPoint Tactical calls it "stealth walking," and I believe it was even mentioned in Ken Cohen's book under "Paleolithic Posture." Basically the white man walk/run is what causes knee injuries and lower back pain. That is why there were runners back in the day without those problems even though they ran in moccasins and we have gel packs. Also why we fall more--you are committing your entire weight without first feeling what is underneath your feet.

Check out runningbarefoot.org and the book "Chi Running" and I'll look for my notes later tonight.

[eXcessiveForce]

I think there is a failure to take into account some things.

Modern feet are no where near the same as American Indian feet. Wearing shoes causes the toes to become less functional, so if you have always worn shoes to go out and start running barefoot is not going to go well. Additionally the condition of the soles of shoe'd feet is no where close to what those who have not worn shoes.

Then you must look at running surface, Indians were not running 26 miles on concrete everyday, nor were they running 100's of miles a week generally. Running injuries come from many sources mostly muscle imbalance or foot rolling and improper conditioning or stretching and being overweight.

Even ultra marathoners run heal to toe.

It is also not possible to know if paleo or even early indians had knee pain from running because it was not studied.

Walking and long distance running are quite different.

[eXcessiveForce]

I will point out the last living "wild" indian had feet quite different from modern feet. There are some interesting observations in the Book ISHI which is the story of his life. It is a great read if you are interested in Native american history.

[treelizard]

It's just that I used to get knee and lower backpain after running even a short distance, and walking long distances, and as soon as I stopped walking/running heal to toe, I haven't had those kinds of problems, even though I'm running or walking a lot more. I believe it was from absorbing the shock from pounding my full weight into concrete.

I'll see if I can find a post a friend of mine wrote about it--he's a massage therapist. A foot doc on another list i'm on said that constantly pounding your feet on hard surfaces in shoes causes your intrinsic foot muscles to atrophy, the articular cartilage to break down and the arches to start to fall.
Stealth walking removes the foot from the pounding and encourages intrinsic muscle use... But I'll ask him if it's different for running.

[Britt]

I decided to go long on Sunday because I hadn't run in two days and was good and rested up. I ran through town out to the highway, and felt so good I decided to keep going on the access road and around the loop. About halfway I had the little voice in the back of my head saying "this might have been a mistake." Still, I kept going and had a great run, about 9.2 miles, much longer than I expected. It got me thinking of doing a half marathon in a few months.

About knee pain...yes, I have some, but I often have it just as bad when I don't run, and it never bothers me while I'm running. Sometimes running hard and long will make me want to scale back for a few days because of aches and pains, but that can be true of whatever conditioning you're doing. Taken overall, I feel like running actually helps me a lot with kicking (I wish I had the same endurance punching!).