Wing Chun or Muay Thai

[Kakarot71]

Muay Thai is good for sport, like boxing. It's not for real combat. I love to box and I'll box all day in the ring, but I'll never use it in a real fight.

[CKD]

Last time I checked thai boxing was good for the street. Either that or thise Israeli special forces people were tricked.

[Jazzshredder86]

It is my humble opinion that no arts are entirely great for the street. Thai boxing would get me killed in a street fight if I were to put up my dukes, back away, and start boxing the guy. That is not to say I dont practice muay thai fanatically, I do, but it is a ring sport, and some of the tools (the basic kicking, striking, movement attributes) I do apply to fighting in the street.

Furthermore, Id go so far as to say effectiveness of a martial art can only be judged by the devastation of its tools and the ability to take that art and strip it down into its most sound tools and principles, and apply it to one's own arsenal. Thai boxing teaches many good tools, a lot about fighting, without giving too many bad habits to its practicioners. At the same time, if you think just tools from thai boxing will save you, you're damn wrong.

Say a 5 animal kung fu master gets jumped coming home from work, and drops one of his assailants with an elbow strike. Does this mean he used mauy thai? no. does this mean he used kung fu? no. It means he hit the bastard with his elbow. His training in kung fu gave him certain skills that helped him survive, yet he hit with a muay thai-style strike. He used the tool that was needed when it was needed, not some super fancy technique that he must use becuase his fighting must uphold the "kung fu tradition."

To explain it better, think of it like a jazz musician. All jazz musicians study the same scales, the same chords. Those are tools. But they use their ear, just like a fighter must use his experience and attributes, to know exactly how and when to utilize those tools at the best possible. Not because it falls into a particular style. A good jazz musician doesnt know just what to play, but what not to play at what time. Its the same for fighting. Good fighters use the best tool at the best time and at no other time, regardless of their style of training.

[Tom Yum]

To explain it better, think of it like a jazz musician. All jazz musicians study the same scales, the same chords. Those are tools. But they use their ear, just like a fighter must use his experience and attributes, to know exactly how and when to utilize those tools at the best possible. Not because it falls into a particular style. A good jazz musician doesnt know just what to play, but what not to play at what time. Its the same for fighting. Good fighters use the best tool at the best time and at no other time, regardless of their style of training.

Considering your name, I take it you're a brass player?? Brass players got b@lls. Comes with the territory. I used to be a 'screetcher'. Improv was hard for me cause I had very little music theory, so I never took lead parts but boy could I embelish and screetch!

My favorites - J. Faddis, Sandoval, Miles and (don't laugh) Doc Severinsen.

[Jazzshredder86]

Considering your name, I take it you're a brass player?? Brass players got b@lls. Comes with the territory. I used to be a 'screetcher'. Improv was hard for me cause I had very little music theory, so I never took lead parts but boy could I embelish and screetch!

My favorites - J. Faddis, Sandoval, Miles and (don't laugh) Doc Severinsen.

Ha actually im a jazz guitarist. a young one at that (17). It makes it hard when people work out with blaring heavy metal and hip hop, which is cool, but i get weird looks when i take my headphones off to get a drink of water and people hear the Charlie Parker tape i have playing....

[yentao]

Wing Chun for hand techniques, Muay Thai for leg techniques. Each style has its own advantage, only need the right applications.

[William Eriepa]

Muay Thai is good for sport, like boxing. It's not for real combat. I love to box and I'll box all day in the ring, but I'll never use it in a real fight.

Hah. No, u'd use your magical "chi" power to blast them away !. But seriously, what would you use then?

Say a 5 animal kung fu master gets jumped coming home from work, and drops one of his assailants with an elbow strike. Does this mean he used mauy thai? no. does this mean he used kung fu? no. It means he hit the bastard with his elbow. His training in kung fu gave him certain skills that helped him survive, yet he hit with a muay thai-style strike. He used the tool that was needed when it was needed, not some super fancy technique that he must use becuase his fighting must uphold the "kung fu tradition."

To explain it better, think of it like a jazz musician. All jazz musicians study the same scales, the same chords. Those are tools. But they use their ear, just like a fighter must use his experience and attributes, to know exactly how and when to utilize those tools at the best possible. Not because it falls into a particular style. A good jazz musician doesnt know just what to play, but what not to play at what time. Its the same for fighting. Good fighters use the best tool at the best time and at no other time, regardless of their style of training

Erm, hrm, yea. It's called the neuromuscular system. Acting and reacting without a thought process. And this can only be developed by properly practicing your techniques time and time again.
And no, he didn't just pull this elbow out of the blue. He used the move most ingrained in his nervous system for that particular situation, something that proper training develops, and something most likely taught from his instructor.
And good fighters and fighters for that matter can only use what they know, do not expect a boxer to throw a kick to the head simply because the situation calls for it, he'd throw his sweet right instead. Why? Well because thats all he's trained for, it's what has been trained into his instinc.
If your style or if your training does not include a certain technique, then do not expect it to be second nature, and certainly don't believe that in the heat of the moment you are going to unleash an untrained move simply because the situation calls for it.

[Jazzshredder86]

Hah. No, u'd use your magical "chi" power to blast them away !. But seriously, what would you use then?


Erm, hrm, yea. It's called the neuromuscular system. Acting and reacting without a thought process. And this can only be developed by properly practicing your techniques time and time again.
And no, he didn't just pull this elbow out of the blue. He used the move most ingrained in his nervous system for that particular situation, something that proper training develops, and something most likely taught from his instructor.
And good fighters and fighters for that matter can only use what they know, do not expect a boxer to throw a kick to the head simply because the situation calls for it, he'd throw his sweet right instead. Why? Well because thats all he's trained for, it's what has been trained into his instinc.
If your style or if your training does not include a certain technique, then do not expect it to be second nature, and certainly don't believe that in the heat of the moment you are going to unleash an untrained move simply because the situation calls for it.

Yeah, thats kind of what I meant, sorry if I was unclear. I mean that people should train to fight with every weapon they have in as many different ways, not just commit to a "style." I mean, for instance, if you do kung fu, and think muay thai is only good for kicking, they just practice muay thai kicks. Dont limit yourself because a certain technique or way of fighting is not part of your "style." And, anyways, in the heat of the moment, most "techniques" fall apart anyways.

[sherwinc]

maybe if.....

Wing Chun for hand techniques, Muay Thai for leg techniques. Each style has its own advantage, only need the right applications.

How about learning WingChun Hand Techniques and also WingChun LowKicks while learning MuayThai Kicking Training? Learning Muay Thai Kicking Training in a day to day basis to enhance strong legs. Then when you have strong legs then using WingChun low kicks to your opponent on street fight....

[jules]

MT only good for kicking? The only aspect of MT that is not as good as other credible styles is punching power. But MT more than makes up for it with knees and elbows. I get so sick and tired of "oh no our style is for REAL fighting"... Please. Don't eye gouge and kick people's nuts. If you style relys so heavily on these two attacks, your style isn't worth that much... Shit it's called girlfighting.

[sherwinc]

MT only good for kicking? The only aspect of MT that is not as good as other credible styles is punching power. But MT more than makes up for it with knees and elbows. I get so sick and tired of "oh no our style is for REAL fighting"... Please. Don't eye gouge and kick people's nuts. If you style relys so heavily on these two attacks, your style isn't worth that much... Shit it's called girlfighting.

Ok, using only your fist, try to fight WingChun's 18 hands. No feet, only hands.

Question:
What are some tricks of the Magicians?
Ans:
Hands are faster than eyes

then...

WingChun 18 hands are faster than Muay Thai's eye

while.....

Muay Thai's fist attacks are all TELEGRAPHIC to the eye of WingChun fighter.

[jules]

so you keep on saying. Talk is what the WC guys do on this forum. They talk about this and that. Oh I forgot WC guys can't fight because their style is "too deadly" or "too street". BULLSHIT. MT has been watered down from Military Muay Thai, Sambo has been watered down from Combat Sambo. If your style has a legic foundation and structor not being able to fight like a girl is not much of a disadvantage. But hey you WC keep on talking about how "deadly" WC is...

[yentao]

MT only good for kicking? The only aspect of MT that is not as good as other credible styles is punching power. But MT more than makes up for it with knees and elbows. I get so sick and tired of "oh no our style is for REAL fighting"... Please. Don't eye gouge and kick people's nuts. If you style relys so heavily on these two attacks, your style isn't worth that much... Shit it's called girlfighting.

In real fight you should be prepared in all parts you can be hit. Your so called nuts and eye are not exemptions. If your sick and tired of "oh no our style is for real fighting" then why not challenge the guy who said that if you are trying to prove something? You can sign a waiver so. If you not might as well rest since you are tired and sick. Also I think you are stress so much why not relax and take a deep breath.

[jules]

why doesn't WC guys actually back himself up buy putting up mony? The gracies had no problem doing it. Thai boxers go to other sports with different rules where they are not allowed elbow/knee attacks. Why cant WC? So much talk but so little action.

[choylifutrocks]

It's quite clear you've never experienced a proper hook kick in a spar like situation. A hook kick properly executed is hard enough to block or evade, and near immpossible to "tackle".
It's all good to reason in theory, that because his back is faced towards you (albeit only for a faction of a second), you should be able to rush in and tackle him, but in reality the moment you see your opening you've already lost it.

I would find the hook kick to be effective in a "point sparring" situation in TKD b/c you can't tackle ur opponent and your objective is to get in quickly (with or WITHOUT POWER, I emphasize on the latter for TKD point sparring). If you think it will take someone who knows how to shoot more than a fraction of a secon to take you down, you are wrong. Even if u came all the way around with your hook kick, you would be jammed up and you'd still get tossed. I'm sorry, but unless your opponent is dazed, or has their back turned a huge flailing kick is not going to be effective. I have ofcourse seen Muay Thai and San Shou mathches where ther are KO's with spinning kicks, but the other guy is usually beat to shit already. I'm just saying you can't go into a fight and throw a stupid ass spinning kick. If u expose your back, you are looking to get shot in on and taken to the ground. You don't have to be in BJJ to know how to apply a rear naked choke and what it can do. I can guarantee, as soon as I get someone on their face, they're getting knocked out, or choked out. For your sake, remember, don't expose your back with a spinning kick.

OH yeah...one more thing for all of u confused McDojoists, or TKD ppl. Don't ever try one of your running (flying) jump kicks. Those are so lame, I've had someone try one of those from behind me, and he still ended up on the ground. The footsteps give it away, give a ton of time to respond, and you being in the middle of the air limits severely your ability to react. IN fact, you can't really react at all in the air, at least not with power

I understand the problems with traditional MA's. I, unfortunately, experience them every once in a while myself. I take Choy Li Fut Kung Fu, and although I find it to be one of the few effective CMAs, there are however, some useless flashing kicks attached to "the art". Luckily, they are exactly for "art" (show). They are for two reasons. One, to test your physical abilities, and two for unfortunate souls who believe those "flashy" moves are deadly to be amused. I would personally get rid of that junk from every students cirriculum, but it's not my call and I am content with the fact that @ my school, our instructors let their students know that it's useless and do not emphasize on them. We do a lot of bag work, sparring, conditioning (including bone conditioning of shins and forearms), concentration mits, etc. With plenty of knees, elbows, joint-locks, and forearms strikes, it's pretty fun.

Speaking of CMAs, why is it 'always' that when ppl speak of Kung Fu in general, they refer to Wing Chun, Tai Chi, or Five Animals. Aaarrrgggg, disgusting. I just came to understand why the "good" kung fu styles never made it out of the closet. People think if Kung Fu and Karate and they want to see big flashy Matrix-like moves. Thus, when people join Kung Fu schools that's what they are expecting. So they get crap!!!