Wing Chun or Muay Thai

[yentao]

Speaking of CMAs, why is it 'always' that when ppl speak of Kung Fu in general, they refer to Wing Chun, Tai Chi, or Five Animals. Aaarrrgggg, disgusting. I just came to understand why the "good" kung fu styles never made it out of the closet. People think if Kung Fu and Karate and they want to see big flashy Matrix-like moves. Thus, when people join Kung Fu schools that's what they are expecting. So they get crap!!!

Good Kung Fu styles never made out of the closet? You got to find out the good ones then.

Matrix-like move? Those are effect on films can't blame them just because they are trying to earn a living.. How foolish for someone to expect a lot of those things in kung fu.

[yentao]

why doesn't WC guys actually back himself up buy putting up mony? The gracies had no problem doing it. Thai boxers go to other sports with different rules where they are not allowed elbow/knee attacks. Why cant WC? So much talk but so little action.

My tip for you is to go to Hong Kong and find someone to sign a waiver and fight him. You can back up a money on it too so you can convince him. I'm sure you will find someone that will take the offer. Just let your embassy know what you are going to do. Rules? It is a real fight what you want remember? Offer without rules. Simple. Now that is a real fight just like what you need.... Jules... I hope there is a fool that will take your offer.

[choylifutrocks]

Yentao: LOL. I know there are good ones, but everyone who thinks of Kung Fu thinks of big, flash, crazy stuff that isn't very effective. That's what I have problem with. Everyone knows Wing Chun because Bruce Lee took it...he wasn't satisfied though, was he? I'm just saying that mainstream Kung Fu causes me "grief" so to speak.

Im not blaming anyone for trying to make a living...what the hell are you talking about. I personally love the matrix, and the special effects. I am just saying that people think of Kung Fu and know kung fu, only by what has been popularized by the media, etc. Thus, leaving any good styles out of the medias eye, just as MT, BJJ, etc. have also been left out.

Not only out of the media's eye, but out of serious fighters. If a serious fighter sees that crap on TV and associates that with all Kung Fu, there is not chance that ANY kung fu will ever even become a remotely conceivable option for training. If some guy moves into a town where there is San Shou, and he sees, say in a yellow pages, that it says San Shou Kung Fu, he will most likely not even bother to call or tae a look at the school if he is a serious fighter, because he will automatically assume it is Kung Fu, like on TV, and it is totally ineffective for fighting.

Its not foolish for someone to expect those things in a lot of types of Kung Fu, it is just foolish of them to expect that they will help them much in a self defense type situation. I don't bash Kung Fu, obviously...look at the name, but I bash bad kung fu and what it does. Bad Kung Fu is almost as offensive to me as TKD is as a self defense MA. They are cool for their own reasons, but they are not and should not be a misleading tool, to make people believe they are safe and can protect themselves from the majority, when they cannot.

[yentao]

Yentao: LOL. I know there are good ones, but everyone who thinks of Kung Fu thinks of big, flash, crazy stuff that isn't very effective. That's what I have problem with. Everyone knows Wing Chun because Bruce Lee took it...he wasn't satisfied though, was he? I'm just saying that mainstream Kung Fu causes me "grief" so to speak.

Im not blaming anyone for trying to make a living...what the hell are you talking about. I personally love the matrix, and the special effects. I am just saying that people think of Kung Fu and know kung fu, only by what has been popularized by the media, etc. Thus, leaving any good styles out of the medias eye, just as MT, BJJ, etc. have also been left out.

Not only out of the media's eye, but out of serious fighters. If a serious fighter sees that crap on TV and associates that with all Kung Fu, there is not chance that ANY kung fu will ever even become a remotely conceivable option for training. If some guy moves into a town where there is San Shou, and he sees, say in a yellow pages, that it says San Shou Kung Fu, he will most likely not even bother to call or tae a look at the school if he is a serious fighter, because he will automatically assume it is Kung Fu, like on TV, and it is totally ineffective for fighting.

Its not foolish for someone to expect those things in a lot of types of Kung Fu, it is just foolish of them to expect that they will help them much in a self defense type situation. I don't bash Kung Fu, obviously...look at the name, but I bash bad kung fu and what it does. Bad Kung Fu is almost as offensive to me as TKD is as a self defense MA. They are cool for their own reasons, but they are not and should not be a misleading tool, to make people believe they are safe and can protect themselves from the majority, when they cannot.

I'm aware of the problem in some kung fu styles that is flowery. Most move become flowery when they taught not properly. But you can always back it up with other styles right? Look for the good ones. There is nothing wrong combining it with other styles to make it more effective. Just to warn you that there is still some masters who won't open up easily. That is very sad... So you better be careful that flashy kick your master was talking about must be in some use that he won't really tell easily...

[choylifutrocks]

I'm aware of the problem in some kung fu styles that is flowery. Most move become flowery when they taught not properly. But you can always back it up with other styles right? Look for the good ones. There is nothing wrong combining it with other styles to make it more effective. Just to warn you that there is still some masters who won't open up easily. That is very sad... So you better be careful that flashy kick your master was talking about must be in some use that he won't really tell easily...

I think we're about on the same page. I don't think that there is anything wrong with learning flashy stuff. I just don't think it should be promoted as a self defense system. I, too, am subject to, a very limited amount, of forms. I don't enjoy them for their self defense purposes, and they are not taught (where I am at) for their self defense purposes. That is open information that they are a part of the art, and should not be used as self defense-- it is taught with the form. I understand that some of the things in forms that look flowery, are things like "joint locks" that are very applicable, but for the most part, much of the flowery material involving kicks and guard hand positions (found in many other styles of Kung Fu) especially are ridiculous. I am confident in my style, and so were the "Heaven and Earth Society" aka the triads. I also am confident in other styles of Kung Fu, just not very many because of the ridiculous junk taught (that makes for a good movie). I think we're almost on the same page.

[Sasami2000]

Why do topics like this exist? I swear, if you actually have to resort to "my style is better than yours" posts on the internet it just goes to show how insecure you are. Honestly, grow up. Both styles have their ups and downs, and if you can't acknowledge that then maybe the martial arts isn't for you. Personally I think anyone that gets online boasting that they can beat any one else in a particular style is a computer geek that's probably never fought a day in their lives.

[choylifutrocks]

Personally I think anyone that gets online boasting that they can beat any one else in a particular style is a computer geek that's probably never fought a day in their lives.

Good point BTW, are u joining the computer geek club?

[Damian Mavis]

HA! This thread is so full of crap it's getting stinky! So many people wrong about so many things.... and I'm too lazy to go back and pick them all out so I'll just deal with 2 of them that I remember off the top of my head.

First of all, I don't believe in the art I believe in the warrior but I do know that some arts prepare you better for the ugly realities of combat better than others, doesn't mean you can't take stuff from all kinds of arts and win fights with them.

William! Dude, Muay Thai does NOT only fight in that defensive stance, that stance you described is used to set up front leg front kick as a defensive interception. They have an aggressive stance too (used to throw roundkicks from) where the rear leg is on the ball of the foot and alot of weight is on the lead foot. And like I told you before, more and more Muay Thai camps use western boxing, not the old shoot from the shoulder style. Too many punchers came here and knocked people out, now the Thais are making it their own.

Choylifutrocks, you couldn't shoot my spinning kick, but that's because spin kicks are supposed to be set up, the moron that would throw a spinning kick off the bat is the same inexperienced moron that would throw a haymaker punch right away. Big techniques need to be set up, unless you are swinging at someones grandma, which can be fun sometimes!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[sherwinc]

and......

Speaking of CMAs, why is it 'always' that when ppl speak of Kung Fu in general, they refer to Wing Chun, Tai Chi, or Five Animals. Aaarrrgggg, disgusting. I just came to understand why the "good" kung fu styles never made it out of the closet. People think if Kung Fu and Karate and they want to see big flashy Matrix-like moves. Thus, when people join Kung Fu schools that's what they are expecting. So they get crap!!!

It is really disgusting because there are many styles/systems of KungFu that are not familiar to them,

Here are some KungFu that i'm sure are not familiar to them:
Fists Category:
1. Chi Dian Bun ( Natural Art or Literature Fist )
2. Go Cho Kun ( NgoChoKun, WuChuChuan, WuZuQuan, FistOfTheFiveAnscestors)
3. Tai Chi Chuan ( Hik, Kiaw, Tan, Yang, Chua ) Tai Chiae Kun Styles
4. AngKa ( Lohan, Arhats )
5. Sword Finger KungFu
6. Hing-I ( Hsing-I Chuan )
7. Chit Chie Tong Long Kun ( seven star praying mantis kungfu)

Weaponry Category:
1. Twin Short Knife
2. Twin Hook Swords
3. Twin Sabers or Twin Broadswords
4. Tri-sectional Staff
5. Jian ( Tai Chiae Kun Kiam Sut ) sword
6. 7 sectional or 9 sectional

[sherwinc]

answer....

I'm aware of the problem in some kung fu styles that is flowery. Most move become flowery when they taught not properly. But you can always back it up with other styles right? Look for the good ones. There is nothing wrong combining it with other styles to make it more effective. Just to warn you that there is still some masters who won't open up easily. That is very sad... So you better be careful that flashy kick your master was talking about must be in some use that he won't really tell easily...

The flowery movements that you see in those kungfu forms are not familiar to the non-kungfu's eye. I mean that they did not understand the exact application of that every flowery movement, there are 6 to more applications of every single flowery movement. Sometimes that flowery movement is applicable if you're holding sabers/broadswords. Just like Tan Tui ( Spring Leg KungFu Style ). They often hide more secret moves, unbreakable codes to every movement in the form/ 6 or more applications in every figure or movement, illusion technique, like the WalkingHands technique of Chi Dian Bun KungFu, like the Returning Hands of Choy Li Fut, like the Sticking Hands Technique of WingChun KungFu, like the Yeilding/Neutralizing Techniques of Tai Chi Chuan KungFu, like the Golden Bell Cover of AngKa Kun KungFu.

It is Hard to undestand this topic (6-to-more application of every movement flowery or non-flowery) for the Non-KungFu MartialArts.

[RuskiRonin]

sherwinc is right. you cant judge an art by it's forms becaues you have no idea of what they are, you can only see them but not know their true meaning
im not saying its a hidden secret but im saying you have to learn to understand it, just cause it doesnt look natural doesnt mean its some useless figure dancing.

[yentao]

The flowery movements that you see in those kungfu forms are not familiar to the non-kungfu's eye. I mean that they did not understand the exact application of that every flowery movement, there are 6 to more applications of every single flowery movement. Sometimes that flowery movement is applicable if you're holding sabers/broadswords. Just like Tan Tui ( Spring Leg KungFu Style ). They often hide more secret moves, unbreakable codes to every movement in the form/ 6 or more applications in every figure or movement, illusion technique, like the WalkingHands technique of Chi Dian Bun KungFu, like the Returning Hands of Choy Li Fut, like the Sticking Hands Technique of WingChun KungFu, like the Yeilding/Neutralizing Techniques of Tai Chi Chuan KungFu, like the Golden Bell Cover of AngKa Kun KungFu.

It is Hard to undestand this topic (6-to-more application of every movement flowery or non-flowery) for the Non-KungFu MartialArts.

You are right. But sometimes some become too complicated, which did not appeal to many. But that how chinese martial art goes.

Like what Ng Mui did to make a more simple style fit for a simple girl.

Secrets are always there in Chinese MAs some masters will not really teach you the proper way immediately.

[Thai Bri]

Damian Mavis is always swinging with someones Grandma. Believe me, I have the pictures.

Paid good money for em, and they're worth it.

[choylifutrocks]

Choylifutrocks, you couldn't shoot my spinning kick, but that's because spin kicks are supposed to be set up, the moron that would throw a spinning kick off the bat is the same inexperienced moron that would throw a haymaker punch right away. Big techniques need to be set up, unless you are swinging at someones grandma, which can be fun sometimes!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Dude, that's exactly the point I was making earlier. I was just saying that if you get into a fight, and someone comes at you with some stupid spinning kick, he is gonna get slammed. I believe I said earlier that if you've dazed the hell outta somebody (or set the up) you can land it, and KO the hell outta someone. My point was that you cannot fight with those huge stupid kicks, and those alone. I'm sure if you set someone up enough, you could do some stupid ass WWF double leg jump kick, but you would start a fight that way, I hope P.S. I really hope noone ever tries that kick in real life

[Tom Yum]

WWF moves work

If little kids kill each other messing around with WWF moves, whatdya think of adults using them.

The cirriculum of many moves in WWF comes from freestyle wrestling, judo and catch wrestling. Imagine pile driving or body slaming someone into the concrete.