Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[lucidmist]

just lucky...

honestly, i was just lucky... and i did emphasize that part. had either one of them pulled a knife, the outcome would have been very different. no forearm or hand or knee would've blocked that.

moreover, i really don't like fights, they surrounded me and wouldn't let me leave and initiated the attack, so it was not a fight even, it was self-defense that i'm stating firmly, i did not win, but survived by making them back off. that is far from winning. in fact, i don't even understand if there is such a thing as a "win" in a fight.. save from a competition. i walked out alive, lucky that i could see my family again. trust me, that thought "will i get to see my family again?" was going through my head the whole time. there's too much room for surprise in any fight, and it's truly luck that makes the biggest difference. you can face a guy really bad with his fists, but if he happened to have a gun, what good even if you could break bricks?

but how you do also depends on what happens. my cousin was around and one of the guys swung his helmet at him and smashed his lips. blood gushed and that really made me angrier when they hurt my family, and I hit them even harder and faster, like an extra strength out of nowhere. i can still remember the anger i felt then.. but i don't remember most of what went on. most fights move so quickly you don't really "think", so you react subconsciously and really, half the time you won't remember what went on cos it's just too fast. i mean you'll definitely remember parts, but not everything. i got hit too, but just that i didn't feel them or notice them at that time. it was only after then i realized where i got hit. too many mistakes that would've been fatal had they been using knives. plus, maybe to those guys, they felt that they won, cos they did hit me a few times. i just felt lucky to be alive, that's all.

i did not win anything, don't get me wrong. i defended myself, that's all. i'm sure many of you have been in worse fights, i have been in a few, and i'm bad at it. but honestly, at the end of the day, luck is one big element. maybe i haven't been in enough fights to meet the really tough ones, but i really don't want to find out. i really don't want to tempt fate cos luck is not forever. avoiding trouble is the best.

ha, maybe those guys were just in bad shape and got tired. so either way, i was still lucky. and you know untrained people with weapons, they get too focused on using the weapons and leave plenty of openings for you to hit them. but still, all they needed was one good helmet smash, and i'd be down cos i'm not a very strong guy. or if one of them knew how to use his weapon properly, that'd have been bad too.

[lucidmist]

just lucky...

duplicate, removed it.

[47MartialMan]

Ok, nicely posted. However, bikers I know you probably wouldnt got off so easily.

Consider this;

Environment and circumstance has everything to do with it.

Luck would have it that those bikers were not as tough as they appear to be.

Perhaps they were over confident of their position and under-estimated yours.

[Tom Yum]

Why is it that most martial artists, esp on forums, state how well they did, took on bikers/bouncers, and they were/are a biker/bouncer? Why is it that they post their fisticuffs and a win and never relish on defeat or loses? Why is it that such has to be done to achieve credibility or demonstrate skill?

'zactly.

I fought a challenge match against a friend of mine whom was a high school football player (just after highschool grad - years ago). Most of my MA experience was in traditional arts at the time.

First thing I did was plant a side kick into his gut that staggered him but he came back swinging. I kept my head back and out of the orbit of his fists and planted a second side kick into his thigh.

It did not work as advertised.

He tackled me and we both hit the dirt pretty hard. We rolled around, latched onto each other, both trying to stand up. He got me into a head lock, trying to wring my neck - I pulled a text book escape, hand over his face, other hand behind his leg and swept him into a crude cross body position. From there, he tried to muscle the head lock. I dug my chin into his chest and pulled a lapel choke.

He stopped. We shook hands, brushed off the grass and crap on us and got to some serious drinkin'.

[lucidmist]

exactly, most definitely it was luck. and like i said, i have been in a number of fights, but lucky not to have met the really "tough" ones, and i really don't wanna find out when my luck runs out.

i was just lucky they didn't bring me down in the first flurry of attacks and that i recovered fast enough from the first hit to ward off most of the oncoming ones (again, not entirely, only deflected most of the ones aimed for my head and face, so knives would've killed me). i was 16, they were in their late twenties, probably strong, probably not. i don't know. that was like decades ago. everyone seemed much taller and bigger than me then. whatever it is, if a 13-year-old could swing a helmet randomly at someone and still hurt a little, definitely 4 grown men swinging helmets posed a bigger threat. i don't remember much, but i knew they were taking constant swings at my head but at the end of it, only my back and slight arm areas were a little injured. head area and front body totally fine. but i had decked them each at least a few times in their face area, and that i know cos my cousin was standing there the whole time watching and he told me what went on because i didn't remember a thing (i wasn't drunk or on drugs!). i mean, had they continued, of course i wouldn't have lasted. my only emphasis of this whole thing was, like it or not, taiji did help me a little because i knew my stamina was definitely better than before i took it up that one year. that and other factors like i could jog much longer, run faster, stuff like that. cos though it looks light, taiji trains alot on your leg muscles when you perform it at a much lower stance. and we were taught to perform the sets multiple times. i'm not saying it's an ultimate skill or something like that, just that useless as it looks, it helped (i took it up for long-term health reasons, not for fighting, by the way).

and no, in case anyone wants to take a knock at this, i would never be able to stand up against a muay thai practitioner or any other martial artist, whole point of this was because people were saying taiji's completely useless and you don't see quick benefits. i mean, i did spar alot with other martial artists, but we took hits from one another, so who can say who's the winner? if no holds barred, i'm sure you guys would say i'd definitely go down, but that's fine with me cos i'm not here to say "i'm the toughest". and i definitely am not tough. i'm not proving anything for myself, just saying something on behalf of taiji. just saying taiji does have its short-term benefits, even if a little. but.. on another note. the true taiji masters, or even those who've done it for a few years, probably would've fared a whole lot better. we had muay thai, karate, jkd and boxing practitioners in our taiji classes, and none of them could get past our master's OR senior disciples' defenses when they sparred (definitely would've K.O.ed me). and like any other martial art, there's no such thing as a quick way. eventually, everything boils down to time and practice.

anyway, it's always easy to only want to acknowledge someone as "tough" when he or she comes from the same discipline as yourself. well i guess there's plenty of news and articles all over as proof of what is the "toughest". but i'm not looking to be seen as "tough". i just want to keep a low profile, so no real big trouble comes to take me away from my family and friends (unless my health takes over first).

[lucidmist]

Tom Yum,

Incidentally, I do think that it is tougher to fight someone using his fists than helmets (unless it's knives or long-reaching weapons). if someone was to grapple or put me in an arm-lock, i'd be totally helpless cos i'm not really a strong or resourceful fighting-type person.

Too bad running's not always an option, or I'd have taken up training in running with ankle weights instead.

Oh.. and just sharing.. our teacher did not teach us to kick into the thigh, it's either the groin, or right at the area below the knee. also, he did emphasize that we use knees instead, cos in taiji when we parry and attack we move in towards to opponent's body as well (not always). many people may not notice, but in some forms of taiji, the elbows and knees are used.

[Tom Yum]

Tom Yum,

Oh.. and just sharing.. our teacher did not teach us to kick into the thigh, it's either the groin, or right at the area below the knee. .

Yeah. The guy I fought was a good classmate of mine, so I didn't feel the need to hit his knee.

many people may not notice, but in some forms of taiji, the elbows and knees are used.

Yeah, its not commonly associated with taiji, I suppose...

[lucidmist]

heh, in any case, there's still a very, very, very long way to go.

[Tom Yum]

heh, in any case, there's still a very, very, very long way to go.

How many more miles?

[darrianation]

in fact, i don't even understand if there is such a thing as a "win" in a fight

Everytime you make it home is a WIN!

[lucidmist]

good point.. but depends on how you look at it.

if someone you've recently put down, happens to see you in town with your wife, or brother or sister or whoever, keeps them in his memory, and decides to take his revenge on them while you're not around, then that isn't exactly "winning". you're just going to end up losing more than a fight that you supposedly won. you won the fight, but you lost the "war".

not saying not to fight back when attacked, but just saying it's better to avoid trouble as much as possible cos you don't know what it can spin off.

[darrianation]

not saying not to fight back when attacked, but just saying it's better to avoid trouble as much as possible cos you don't know what it can spin off.

It is still a WIN if you run away and never throw a punch.

Street fighting is not sport fighting the parameters are different and the ways you can WIN are different.

[lucidmist]

ah.. i get what you mean now by "make it home". i thought you meant a punch getting "home", meaning reaching its target.

great. we meant the same thing when i said avoiding trouble. at my age, i'd choose to run home anytime, if my legs could move that fast still. =)

[Tom Yum]

if someone you've recently put down, happens to see you in town with your wife, or brother or sister or whoever, keeps them in his memory, and decides to take his revenge on them while you're not around, then that isn't exactly "winning". you're just going to end up losing more than a fight that you supposedly won. you won the fight, but you lost the "war"..not saying not to fight back when attacked, but just saying it's better to avoid trouble as much as possible cos you don't know what it can spin off.

I see what you mean. And running is one helluva option.

The crappy thing is that people will attack others for reasons that are beyond anyone's control, much less insults.

If someone insults you or puts you down, shouldn't you ask them and yourself the reasons why? And if they insulted you, is that enough justification to physically attack them?

Personally, I'd wait a while and then ask why they said what they did, then shut up and listen.

[lucidmist]

I see what you mean. And running is one helluva option.

The crappy thing is that people will attack others for reasons that are beyond anyone's control, much less insults.

If someone insults you or puts you down, shouldn't you ask them and yourself the reasons why? And if they insulted you, is that enough justification to physically attack them?

Personally, I'd wait a while and then ask why they said what they did, then shut up and listen.

Totally agree man... it's usually something that subtly oneself may have done to have triggered an attack or insult... although there really are jerks around who'd just want to pick a fight for no reason, even when a person can just be passing by minding his or her own business... i'd rather run than fight, but i really hope i won't be cornered (not very strong person ).

i've already told the people around me that should anybody attack me, whether it's an old enemy or some random person, they should get clear, run as fast as they can to safety, and call the cops. that's really the best thing to do, and the best help they can and should offer. i'll just try and delay whatever's happening, giving them time and chance to run away.

but... if someone actually tries to attack or has attacked a family member, friend or loved one, maybe it's a little tough to hold back.. if there's still time to call the cops, i'll call them first before stepping in to try and delay whatever's boiling up and defend ourselves if necessary, or rather, if that's even still possible. if the guy's got a gun and it's point blank range, erm, nothing can save the day. even a knife can be bad enough trouble, unless there's something around (hopefully i'd be wearing a belt) that i can flail around like a madman!