??? re Greg Alland tapes...

[BB408]

Have you heard of him punching out the Pharisees when they came many times to bully Him? Didnt He say Blessed are the Humble and The meek for they shall see God? He took the position of offering the left side when one was insulted by the strike on the right cheek.

If memory serves a slap to the right cheek in this time is considered a grave insult. This passage in Matthew is not referring to a physical attack but an insult. There is an incident in John where Christ is brought before the Sanhedrin and slapped. He didn't "turn the other cheek" but verbally rebuked the officer that did it.

Romans 12:17-21
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

Sometimes it just ain't possible.

The Sword that Jesus had mentioned was to point out that the world would hate those that sought God and would persecute them.
Because this message brings Gods light and exposes darkness.

They will be hated for the message of repentance that they will have to bring.
What kind of sword? It is the sword of division that God's word brings. It is the division of truth from error, and the reaction of the darkness against the light. The sword that Jesus brings, is the sword that his followers have to suffer, a sword that is applied to them, not a sword that they wield against others.

Nope, the Greek word used here is "maxairan". He's referring to a literal sword here not the Word of God.

[kruzada]

Nice post. A refreshing attitude in this Forum.

The Philippines is a predominantly Catholic / Christian country, yet very few "Filipino" Martial Artists act like Christians.

[greentea]

To be able to use humility and let one who has lower personal development believe that -what he may wish- if that is what is called for at the time.

Okay in other words if You got a guy mouthing off or acting like a bully- doesnt mean that you must take it personally and resort to that level yourself.

It seems that this message is taught less and that the attitude to fight at the drop of a hat is being more promoted in some martial arts circles.

Life is a short journey and the true answers are outside of violence and destruction.

BB408 Even Christ admonished his disciples to buy a sword if they didn't have one.

BB408 You mention Jesus Christ, but fail to mention what he had really stood for. Didnt he admonish Peter to put away his sword after he had cut off the ear of one of the guards of the pharisees? He then had the power to heal the mans ear.

Have you heard of him punching out the Pharisees when they came many times to bully Him? Didnt He say Blessed are the Humble and The meek for they shall see God? He took the position of offering the left side when one was insulted by the strike on the right cheek.

Not to say that He also didnt practise or advocate defensive maneuvers himself. He had escaped numerous times when they came after Him. When the time came for His laying down His life, and the fulfillment of all things, He had allowed His own arrest. Christ Himself said, "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14).

Imagine His disciples fighting with everyone who had come to persecute them. Of course they had a different world view then that of the average street hoodlum or worldly person. They had insight into the higher realms of existence and a belief and understanding that God exists and that we must all answer to Him.

Romans 12:17-21
Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

...do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

However My own position on Self Defense when it is called for...to quote Theologian Norman Geisler

"to permit murder when one could have prevented it is morally wrong. To allow a rape when one could have hindered it is an evil. To watch an act of cruelty to children without trying to intervene is morally inexcusable. In brief, not resisting evil is an evil of omission, and an evil of omission can be just as evil as an evil of commission. Any man who refuses to protect his wife and children against a violent intruder fails them morally."

The Sword that Jesus had mentioned was to point out that the world would hate those that sought God and would persecute them.
Because this message brings Gods light and exposes darkness.

They will be hated for the message of repentance that they will have to bring.
What kind of sword? It is the sword of division that God's word brings. It is the division of truth from error, and the reaction of the darkness against the light. The sword that Jesus brings, is the sword that his followers have to suffer, a sword that is applied to them, not a sword that they wield against others.

And exactly that happens in many countries. The fellowship of believers, while full of peace, incurs the wrath of the nonbelievers. Christians are gathering peacefully, yet are persecuted.

[BB408]

To be able to use humility and let one who has lower personal development believe that -what he may wish- if that is what is called for at the time.

I'm afraid that I don't understand this sentence.

This is the higher level that is attained from Martial Arts dedication.

An attitude of true Confidence and Humility and seeing the bigger picture.

Dedication does not automatically equate to confidence or humility. Confrontations cannot always be resolved by refraining from violence or by "hiding" your skills. Even Christ admonished his disciples to buy a sword if they didn't have one.

[jubaji]

Martial Ability to be hidden at times-To refrain from violence and with humility to walk away from a confrontation, or to use minimal force, or psychology. To be able to use humility and let one who has lower personal development believe that -what he may wish- if that is what is called for at the time.

One who uses the art of fighting without fighting.

This is the higher level that is attained from Martial Arts dedication.

An attitude of true Confidence and Humility and seeing the bigger picture.

What a load of BS!

[greentea]

The Art also being able to express through movement and concept

Martial Ability to be hidden at times-To refrain from violence and with humility to walk away from a confrontation, or to use minimal force, or psychology. To be able to use humility and let one who has lower personal development believe that -what he may wish- if that is what is called for at the time.

One who uses the art of fighting without fighting.

This is the higher level that is attained from Martial Arts dedication.

An attitude of true Confidence and Humility and seeing the bigger picture.

[jubaji]

The physical abilities developed through martial arts must be hidden at times, and practitioners must refrain from public display.

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[BB408]

The term "art" does not necessarily refer to something with aesthetic value.

Webster's defines art as:
1 : skill acquired by experience, study, or observation
2 a : a branch of learning: (1) : one of the humanities (2) plural : LIBERAL ARTS b archaic : LEARNING, SCHOLARSHIP
3 : an occupation requiring knowledge or skill
4 a : the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced b (1) : FINE ARTS (2) : one of the fine arts (3) : a graphic art
5 a archaic : a skillful plan b : the quality or state of being artful
6 : decorative or illustrative elements in printed matter

I'm not debating your right to teach physical skills and a certain ethos under the banner of martial arts. I do, however, think that you may be forgetting the true definition of the term - warrior skills. Perhaps a different term may be in order for what you're suggesting.

And to answer your question about "Why not just use a gun?" - Because of those pesky background checks and mandatory waiting periods.

[greentea]

WHAT ABOUT THE ART? The warrior path to higher levels of self, and of LiFE, not of Death. These ways are becoming lost.
The western way the past 30 years has changed the Martial Arts to just martial street fighting. The modern culture is degrading most Art in general. What is in may not necesarily be what is right.
Many people these days come to the martial arts as if to a sport or, worse, as if seeking an effective instrument of aggression and domination. And, unhappily, there are studios that cater to this clientele.

IS THAT ALL THERE IS - WHO CAN BEAT WHO? If so Why not just use a gun? And is killing all that you seek from your practise of martial arts? These thoughts and ways ruin and destroy lives.

Its not just all about being a fighter, to be champion or title holder. Is that What you teach kids and everyone else who comes through the door in a dojo or martial arts schol? They may be looking for higher meaning and discipline and better life.
All the talk about challenges and who is right and who would win...What if you were sick or in an accident and injured? Does this not mean that you may not fare as well in the ring? Your martial arts is of no use to you because You will not be number one and recognized as such a tough guy now.

Martial Arts is not only for the gifted, the strong, and aggressive, but for everyone, regardless of basic ability or potential. A good instructor can sense the need of each student, and give the type of training needed to help each one.
The physical abilities developed through martial arts must be hidden at times, and practitioners must refrain from public display, thereby learning humility. Though everyone wishes to excel in knowledge, only a small percentage of those in martial arts training will achieve the ultimate.

Don't study the martial arts because you want to be a killer. Be open to the deeper meaning and philosophy of the martial arts; the emphasis on strengthening mind, body and spirit, and the teachings that tell you the most powerful warrior is the one who is strong enough to avoid fighting. If all you want to be is a street thug, or act and think like one, then please leave the martial arts alone.

[BB408]

The current publicized image of the Martial Arts as a violent, military discipline is not a true representation of what is, in essence, a means through which one can come to understand and creatively deal with conflict.

Webster's defines "martial" as:
1 : of, relating to, or suited for war or a warrior
2 : relating to an army or to military life
3 : experienced in or inclined to war : warlike

What definition should we be using? Should the term martial be defined as "creative conflict resolution?"

[academian]

You cant be for real Do you do tai chi in the park with a shaolin robe on????????

[greentea]

Peace and freindship

All of the controversy around Greg Alland and the exchanges on here about fighting. This is not the direction of what the martial arts should represent. Please see my website. The primary interest of the Martial Arts for Peace Association is to bring about an understanding of the Martial Arts as a beneficial endeavor people can practice for health and well-being. The current publicized image of the Martial Arts as a violent, military discipline is not a true representation of what is, in essence, a means through which one can come to understand and creatively deal with conflict. The Martial Arts can give the student the opportunity to understand himself. In understanding oneself the student comes in direct contact with the origin of conflict, the foundation of violence. This confrontation with oneself is the primary reason why serious people study the Martial Arts.

[tigrtclaw]

Just to get some inside info for myself I wrote to guro William McGrath and asked his opinion of training at Greg Allands seminar. This is what he wrote concerning Greg Alland.

"I would train with a different instructor, even if it meant having to train in another art."

Regards,
Bill McGrath

[senseijack]

Greetings

Hello All

I was browsing through martial arts sites and found this forum through a Google search. How bad could the video tapes mentioned be to have stirred such emotions?

To hear such controversial comments and glimpses into behind the scenes drama, This is all very interesting.

I have never heard of Greg Alland, but he must walk in some sort of charisma to attact such an eclectic array of postings.

[TopDog]

I wonder-After all of this controversy, is Greg Alland planning on putting together any new tapes or DVD's?
Hopefully he'll consider doing a more professional job if he does.