??? re Greg Alland tapes...

[B.T.E.]

~~~~~~~~~~

[MAMike]

Dear Guro Dave,

great to hear from you. Hope everything is well with you.

Many thanks for your warm and clarifying words.

Maraming salamat po at paalam,

Mike

[MAMike]

http://www.dekiti-tirsia.net What happened to this website? It is now a blank.

I had a server relaunch. Page will be back in a few days...

Regards, Mike

[Kali Novice]

'Crap', VT3? That seems a little harsh; he seemed more then capable at what he was doing. But then, I've never seen the 'masters' play. Though, I was lead to believe Greg was amoung the masters; I'm showing my newbie status, aren't I?

What problems, specifically, have you found with his methods? I've enjoyed my seminars with him as he holds nothing back that the student can handle; maybe rushing into too much instead of working one section to perfection is a poor choice, but I can't help but enjoy having a large arsenal which I can perfect over time. Because seminars are somewhat expensive and many are unable to frequently attend them, I'm rather fond of doing my best to perfect the basics I'd learned, and to be corrected and learn a little more next time. Of course, the population on this board is likely far above and beyond my level, and I suppose perhaps they need a little more then the basics. It gives you time to find flaws and better ways on your own, too. Can't argue with the Socratic Method, after all.

Again, I sincerely hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries or offending anyone. I could decribe the learning experience with Tortall, but nobody seems to be discrediting his teachings.

[Guro Dave Gould]

Hi guys,

I hope that all is well with everyone and that all are keeping themselves challenged by there training. I`ve followed this thread since it was initiated and I have to say that you are all entitled to your own opinion Concerning P. Greg Alland. As am I, and I think that alot of you are a liitle too hard on him more-so than what he deserves anyway. There is alot about the man that most of you don`t realize.

I`ve known P. Greg Alland since 1989 and I have had the pleasure to cross weapons with him on numerous occasions over the last 15 years both here in the States and in the Philippines. It`s easy to come down on some-one when everyone around you is providing more than enough momentum for you to jump right in and voice your opinions rather freely. I`ve sparred with Greg on numerous occasions and I can tell you from experience that when he is pressed to move he can hold his own. So unless you have stood in front of him and thrown blows with the man you really have no voice in the matter concerning his combative prowess or lack there of. You can say what you will of his tapes as this is subjective and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But only after viewing them and formulating an honest opinion concerning the material presented. Just because he may have questionable tapes out doesn`t warrant Character assassination and unsubstantiated personal insults to his combative skills.

P. Greg Alland has always put his best foot forward when it comes to learning and training the Pilipino / Malay Warrior Arts. And over the years he has trained for considerable amounts of time both in the Phillippines and Indonesia on numerous annual visits to SE Asia. And he has received his training from some of the best Masters available for training at the time (Cacoy Canete, Diony Canete, Pendekar Eddie Jafri, Leo Gaje, etc...).

Greg is a serious martial artist and has been since the majority of you were shitting your diapers. However he is a business man as well as are many of you and this has always been the source of his un-doing as far as Pilipinos are concerned. When he started promoting himself with the "Fear no Man on Earth" label this really pissed alot of people off in the Philippines in powerful positions. I know of alot of very famous Masters in the Philippines that took great offense toward this as they saw it as a statement that challenged their authority and manhood in general. The way that they interpreted it was "Fear no Man on Earth... including themselves". Which to a pilipino attacks ones position in the community and more importantly it is a direct attack on ones "Face". In the Philippines this can be a severe insult to ones own expression of being a Man. Because the way that one does business in the west differs from his counter part in the East Greg may have over looked this and the effewct that it would have on him. In the west this is a good business advertisement and most would see it as just that. But as anyone knows that has extensively traveled in the East our cultures and values are always on a collision course with each other. What is acceptable in one culture can be quite unacceptable in another. And Greg as well as many of us have fallen victim to the culture shock effect.

I was present in the Philippines (Negros Occidental) in 1996 with Tuhon Leo Gaje, Tuhon "Nene" Tortal and P. Greg Alland when Tuhon Gaje asked Greg if he could stop using this advertisement. He let Greg know that it offended people and Tuhon Gaje offered the label "The stick is round and the blade is flat, make your choice" as an alternative. Greg initially agreed and would probably have stuck to it if only a few months later Tuhon Gaje and Tuhon Tortal had not had there falling out and gone their separate ways. Either way Greg went back to the states and continued promoting his "Fear no Man on Earth" tape series and after words were exchanged and accusations were let fly between Tuhon Gaje and Greg, Mr. Alland considered putting his support behind Tuhon "Nene" Tortal and this brings us to where we currently are now.

Greg has trained with Tuhon Gaje in NY since the early 70`s and like it or not he can tell you alot that you don`t know about the evolution of Kali Pekiti-tirsia from whence it came to where it is now and a few additions to it in-between. Greg held alot of positions within the Pekiti-Tirsia organization early on and trained under Tuhon Leo faithfully for many years including sending money to the Philippines to Tuhon Leo after Tuhon Gaje left the States in 1989 for the Philippines with no plans to return and teach in the states again.

Greg has made some bad decisions which haunt him and he has caught alot of flack for it. But through it all to this day after so many accusations have been leveled against him from the Philippines I can`t remember Greg once saying anything bad about his seniors in the Pekiti-tirsia family. Greg almost cried in excitement when he saw Tuhon Gaje for the first time since many years in 1996 while we met up in Bacolod City (Philippines) to train. He has never had anything but respect for Tuhon Gaje and Pekiti-tirsia and after everything that Greg has been put through I have never heard Greg speak ill of either or. That speaks volumes for the man as many of you don`t know Greg and you have him laid out on the cross for execution. Greg actually knows his accusers and has been put through a great deal of harrasment over the years and he still holds true to his loyalty to Tuhon Gaje and Pekiti-tirsia.

I have nothing but good things to say about Tuhon Gaje, Tuhon "Nene" Tortal, and yes P. Greg Alland. I haven`t had any problems with any of them over the many years that I have known them all. I just wanted to come forward and say a good word for Greg and possibly give you all a different ventage point on the situation. There is alot that I could go into but I don`t want to get political as it serves no purpose but to inflate ego and destroy lives with nothing positive to gain in turn. All that I will say is that the "Rumor mill" can be quite unfair to people at times and as a Friend I feel that Greg is well over due some rest from these accusations that people are throwing around primarily in his direction.

For the record I have dedicated myself to Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite and Lameco Eskrima since 1992 and that is all that I teach now. But I had an extensive training relationship with Tuhon Gaje and the Pekiti-tirsia organisation before that. The reason that I bring this up is to show that I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose by what I am writing as I am not a student of Greg`s but rather an acquaintance and Friend. I`m not making Greg out to be a Saint as he has done things that maybe he shouldn`t have but he doesn`t deserve all of the bad publicity that he gets for making those decisions. Go well guys, ciao.

Guro Dave Gould

https://www.LamecoEskrima.org

[tigrtclaw]

http://www.dekiti-tirsia.net What happened to this website? It is now a blank.

[VT3]

Yes I can provide info! Allands Tapes are crap and so is his method!

[Kali Novice]

I'm from the middle of nowhere, which considering Missouri itself is known as the middle of nowhere is quite an accomplishment. It's actually been well over a year since a seminar with Mr.Alland. . . . I confess that I own no tapes. I've heard they're a little old fashioned but I'd always thought of them to be supplimental, a follow up of sorts to the personal training one received. Not owning them, I've got no grounds for having any thoughts on them though, do I?

Because I don't own any, perhaps that's where the confusion comes from. Could someone explain the contraversy that arises from the tapes? As old as they were, I'd never considered that the contraversy could only now arise over them... or has this been going on for a while?

Pardon the ignorance; I'm new.

[B.T.E.]

~~~~~~~~~~

[kaliace]

Yo,

I don't think anyone doubts Greg's skills; I've been able to go to a few seminars of his, and he's shown himself to be very versatile and capable as well as a good teacher. I never knew him well enough to make any commentary on his personality, but I'm still confused on what exactly the issue is.

Is it about the fact that he has blended styles?
If so, the only problem I could possibly see is if he were calling the changes a part of Tortall's system. Even then, I scarcely see the problem, but because someone kindly pointed out the history and values the system holds to their family, I can understand the problem, even if I disagree on the primary level.

I'm terribly sorry if I sound too based torwards Greg, when I by no means have enough training to make an intellegent commentary on martial arts and have had no real exposure to any of the men being discussed outside of a student-teacher setting. I'd just like to get the facts straight, because I enjoy Kali immensely and saying "Why can't we just all get alone and train" is a simplistic, childish view that undermines the issues which I, granted, do not understand.

Thanks, as always, for the insight. I hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries or seeming to impatient or ignorant because of the questions.

Kali Novice,

Welcome to the tread. I was wondering where you are in Missouri. You say that you have been to a few of his seminars, which ones did you attend? In keeping with the original thread do you have any of his tapes?

I hope to hear from you soon,

Michael G Olive

https://www.rattanclub.com

[danjuandesiga]

It's all cool

It's cool. I can respect the man for being an active practicing martial artist and that I would love to truly believe that he IS much, much better with his skills in practice as opposed to what I had seen from his "Fear No Man on Earth" tape sets.

I'm not knocking them man for his capabilities as a *Flip Martial Artist. I personally think that much, much better work could have been done in the production of those tapes.

I simply don't find the tapes appealing enough. And believe ME.. I did try to follow along with the program but I just couldn't.... it just was not 'cutting-it'.

I can't and won't apologize for my opinion ABOUT the TAPES produced by P. Greg Alland. (yes, I'm sticking to the subject of the thread here, homies).

JUST TO REMIND YOU GUYS.... I have not, and am not saying anything "bad" or trash-talking the dude.

I trashed the tapes instead.

The art of Pekiti Tirsia Kali (and DTS, etc.) is one very beautiful art as it is freakin DEADLY! I love it and respect what the Tortal family have done to promote their skills and share to the martial arts world what they got. Those guys rock!

-Rock on withyour stick on!

SIncerely,
Daniel Arola

[Kali Novice]

Yo,

I don't think anyone doubts Greg's skills; I've been able to go to a few seminars of his, and he's shown himself to be very versatile and capable as well as a good teacher. I never knew him well enough to make any commentary on his personality, but I'm still confused on what exactly the issue is.

Is it about the fact that he has blended styles?
If so, the only problem I could possibly see is if he were calling the changes a part of Tortall's system. Even then, I scarcely see the problem, but because someone kindly pointed out the history and values the system holds to their family, I can understand the problem, even if I disagree on the primary level.

I'm terribly sorry if I sound too based torwards Greg, when I by no means have enough training to make an intellegent commentary on martial arts and have had no real exposure to any of the men being discussed outside of a student-teacher setting. I'd just like to get the facts straight, because I enjoy Kali immensely and saying "Why can't we just all get alone and train" is a simplistic, childish view that undermines the issues which I, granted, do not understand.

Thanks, as always, for the insight. I hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries or seeming to impatient or ignorant because of the questions.

[B.T.E.]

~~~~~~~~~~

[ruffstuff]

Waves

Hello Top Dog,

I am not trying to cause any waves. Actually trying to calm to current a little bit. That's why I joined the forum just a few days ago. As I am sure you have noticed from my posts. I am not a 'cyber or typist Guru' by any means.

I have no idea what MA Mike was told. Just wanted him to know that Michael G. Olive is a really good hearted and dedicated person. That he is always welcome to contact GM at anytime. And a little information about Dekiti-Tersia Siradas. I hope to meet MA Mike, Andy and all of the other insrtuctors in Germany during Grandmaster Tortal's trips in the future.

I have not had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Tanner. I do know Master Greg though. I have no ides who anyone else is.............to be honest with you.

The seminars are normally not negative at all. I have had the opportunity to meet some really great and tallented people in the past few years through seminars, competitions and gatherings.

Best regards, Mike Snow

[TopDog]

This is a Very Hot Thread!
Some very interesting posts on here. I've learned a lot about thing's I never even considered before. I mean what's going on in the background of the seminars and the instructors.
I also learned about some new interesting people including Mike Snow and Mike Olive and also more about Master Tortal.
Now just who is the VT3 guy anyone know? I copied the posts and had sent them to Mr. David Tanner at his Email.

I'd like to hear David Tanners and Greg Allands side to all of this too.