How many of you carry weapons?

[shadowkiller]

well this sounds like he is serious

Dude do you regularly walking down the street get searched? Well if you do you live in one screwed up place. And if you use a weapon and get caught thats also stupid wouldnt you say. Even if you dont have a weapon, if you get into a fight and you get caught you are going to court.... Even if you are not the aggressor, which you usually cant prove unless their are witnesses. And a lot of the time they are attached to either party so will side with whoever they are friends with. A weapon is a tool, why get hurt when its not necessary? That to me is stupidity.

[AlexJitsu]

Dude, no one finds out about street fights. It's not like someone in a gang is going to go within 100 feet of a cop.

I just can't understand how you people are talking about court and "you'll get in trouble if you use a weapon". Those people on the street could give a damn less, and they're the ones that will be on your ass, not the police.

[Tom Yum]

Prehaps you've never gotten in trouble with the courts and other forms of big brother. Anyways the way i look at it is that "its better to be judged by 12 than carried by six."

No kidding. If you're attacked, fight to kill or to at least escape. I have to agree with you on that one.

[shuyun]

a philosophy i've learned to adopt is "injure don't hurt."

hurting only escalates the situation when tempers flare and adrenaline rages. one, the other or both may end up dead. many rape victims end up dead by playing tough and clawing their assailant or slapping them across the face (this is hurting but not injuring)

whereas injuring your assailant to the point of incapacitation stops him dead in his tracks (bad pun) and takes away the need to escalate the situation to a lethal confrontation.

if he never walks again because you stopmed his knee or never works again because you broke his arm just remember it was his call to assault you. at least you did not kill him. but if the guy is intent at taking your life and you END UP KILLING HIM that was his call too.

[darrianation]

When it comes to weapons carry it is a personal decision. Learning a MA, or what style/system you learn is a personal decision. Basically you have to take into consideration what are your personal values, and to what levels you willing take it.

Personally when it comes to reality in self-defense there must be some considerations taken.
1) Knowledge and prevention
2) Avoidance, escape
3) Low intensity conflict
4) High intensity conflict

The use of force latter:
1) Visual indicators- Someone standing near your car after a late movie, someone eyeballing you from the next table over, a car slowing next to you, someone blocking your path, etc.
2) Verbal- being engaged verbally. Someone warning you, threatening you, yelling at you, etc.
3) Physical- someone has moved into you personal space, touching you, grabbing/pushing you, punching you, etc.
4) Deadly force- (felony assault), this is where things become dicey. Someone trying to murder you or a family member produce a weapon against you, multiple attackers, rape, robbery, etc.



Remember the first rule is not to enter into the latter in the first place. The second rule is to Survive do what ever it takes including using deadly force. Deal with the threat first then deal with the law later.

When you enter into level 4 you must fear for your life or another’s life before you can use deadly force. However the laws governing deadly force differ from state to state. So you need to know the laws of where you live.

When it comes to weapons you need to know the law too. You do need to consider the law when making these decisions. The fixed blade that I carry is legal where I live as long is it’s under a certain length it is legal. I can carry concealed firearm because I have the proper permits to do so. If I leave the state on a job then I have to fill out the appropriate paperwork so I am legal even in places like New York City.

If these things are illegal where you live then it’s up to you to decide either way. Remember you have the right and the duty to defend yourself and your family. Take it seriously.

[darrianation]

I didn’t mention proper responses to force used. Remember laws differ from state to state, county to county, and municipality to municipality.

Use of force latter for civilians and there responses per Jim Wagner

1) Visual Indication: - No injury- Response: Act confident, avoid, other proper responses.
2) Verbal indicators: - No injury- Response: Verbal deflection/de-escalation, avoid/escape.
3) Assault: -Minor injury- Response: Escape, use reasonable force. Basically you are aloud by law to match his intensity.
4) Felony assault: - Serious injury- Response: Deadly force.

* Attempted murder, rape, etc there are practically unlimited options that you will not be held accountable for. The only limiting factors will be yourself, and your environment. Meaning the weapons you have on you or the hasty weapons you can find and can access, as well as your training and fear levels.

A note on assault: No weapons-
1) If a person attacks you with no weapons then this can be considered a simple assault and deadly force may not be legally indicated.
2) If a person with a very large size disparity over you attacks, then you may go up the latter to deadly force.
3) If there are multiple attackers and you feel your life is in danger or you fear serious injury you may go up the latter.
4) If a weapon is produced by the attacker then move up the latter to deadly force.

Remember before you can use deadly force in any situation you must have reasonable fear of serious bodily injury, opr fear of death for yourself or someone else!

The big problem here and it gets dicey; is the winner of the fight will be the one (unfortunately) who escalates the violence the furthest the fastest. This puts us good guys at a disadvantage. If we escalate to fast we can be the one going to jail. If we don’t escalate fast enough we can be dead. So exercise good judgment and let the force be with you, use of force that is.

[Tom Yum]

A note on assault: No weapons-
1) If a person attacks you with no weapons then this can be considered a simple assault and deadly force may not be legally indicated.
2) If a person with a very large size disparity over you attacks, then you may go up the latter to deadly force.
3) If there are multiple attackers and you feel your life is in danger or you fear serious injury you may go up the latter.
4) If a weapon is produced by the attacker then move up the latter to deadly force.

Remember before you can use deadly force in any situation you must have reasonable fear of serious bodily injury, opr fear of death for yourself or someone else!

The big problem here and it gets dicey; is the winner of the fight will be the one (unfortunately) who escalates the violence the furthest the fastest. This puts us good guys at a disadvantage. If we escalate to fast we can be the one going to jail. If we don’t escalate fast enough we can be dead. So exercise good judgment and let the force be with you, use of force that is.

America's Most Wanted scanned its databases to make a composite of the average violent street criminal. There results? The average physical size was male 5'11" and 180 - 205 pounds.

That can automatically put you in category number 2 and likely number 4 since street thugs like to use weapons.

Speaking of which, AMW allways has there re-enactments of various crime scenes. One of the most interesting ones was some guy that got choked by an ecaped prisoner. Nothing fancy. The guy mounted the victim and used both hands to squeeze at the victims throat. This is a common escape practiced 1,000s of times in hapkido and japanese jujitsu. The poor guy didn't know what to do.

[Tom Yum]

A note on assault: No weapons-
1) If a person attacks you with no weapons then this can be considered a simple assault and deadly force may not be legally indicated.
2) If a person with a very large size disparity over you attacks, then you may go up the latter to deadly force.
3) If there are multiple attackers and you feel your life is in danger or you fear serious injury you may go up the latter.
4) If a weapon is produced by the attacker then move up the latter to deadly force.

Remember before you can use deadly force in any situation you must have reasonable fear of serious bodily injury, opr fear of death for yourself or someone else!

The big problem here and it gets dicey; is the winner of the fight will be the one (unfortunately) who escalates the violence the furthest the fastest. This puts us good guys at a disadvantage. If we escalate to fast we can be the one going to jail. If we don’t escalate fast enough we can be dead. So exercise good judgment and let the force be with you, use of force that is.

America's Most Wanted scanned its databases to make a composite of the average violent street criminal. There results? The average physical size was male 5'11" and 180 - 205 pounds.

That can automatically put you in category number 2 and likely number 4 since street thugs like to use weapons.

Speaking of which, AMW allways has there re-enactments of various crime scenes. One of the most interesting ones was some guy that got choked by an ecaped prisoner. Nothing fancy. The guy mounted the victim and used both hands to squeeze at the victims throat. This is a common escape practiced 1,000s of times in hapkido and japanese jujitsu. The poor guy didn't know what to do.

[darrianation]

America's Most Wanted scanned its databases to make a composite of the average violent street criminal. There results? The average physical size was male 5'11" and 180 - 205 pounds.

That can automatically put you in category number 2 and likely number 4 since street thugs like to use weapons.

Speaking of which, AMW allways has there re-enactments of various crime scenes. One of the most interesting ones was some guy that got choked by an ecaped prisoner. Nothing fancy. The guy mounted the victim and used both hands to squeeze at the victims throat. This is a common escape practiced 1,000s of times in hapkido and japanese jujitsu. The poor guy didn't know what to do.

Nice info, but just to throw somthing else into the mix.

As you said he didn't know what to do, or maybe he panicked and froze or could not recall what to do when the fear and adrenaline hit!

[darrianation]

Here’s a scenario for you.

You and you friends are having a nice little family picnic at the park. After you throw some burgers and some bratwursts on the grill you sit down and pop open a cold one while you enjoy the warm slightly breezy day.

The kids are playing on the play set and little Joey is yelling daddy watch me do this…when you notice a scruffy slender looking man sitting down at the table next to you. He is acting rather odd, and all though you can’t seem to put your finger on it, there is just something not quite right.

You get up to flip the burgers and you notice him get up and walk away, but then he turns back to have a talk with you. He starts in by asking “Do you have a gas can in your trunk”?

Now what you don’t know is the John Doe in this scenario has just been recently released from prison after spending approximately 24 years in jail for murder. So this guy has killed before, you don’t know this nor do you now how or what he had to endure in the state pen to survive that long.

Then suddenly with out warning he pulls a knife from what seems to be from nowhere and begins to cut, slash, and stab like a man possessed. Not the dainty, technically correct thrusts that you see on those self-defense videos mind you, or those slow slashes you practice in SD class but wild, deliberate, meaningful thrusts meant to take out a huge chunks of flesh with each stab.

Buy the time it’s all over two men, friends, were laying dead in front of their kids. A third man who I believe sustained some injuries was able to run to his vehicle with the madman in pursuit, and he just happened to run over the bad guy with his car killing him.

This is based on a true story.

The point is that a seasoned criminal such as this who probably doesn’t have any good empty hand skills, but armed with a weapon like a knife he can and did do some serious damage within seconds.

So how do you prepare for something like this? What are you going to do?

I am so tired of hearing people say I can do this to that guy or if he does that then I’ll just do this, because I have trained in fill in the blank __________ martial art. The things that they don’t teach you in the dojo are the things that will get you killed such as a fight has a mind of it’s own and all your nifty little plans will go out the window once the first punch is thrown. The people, who are arrogant, assume, or who is over-confident in their skills will be the first to fall.

Contrary to what you may have practiced in Karate class, The bad guy is not going to hold out his knife arm for you to grab, and if you did by luck grab his arm he still has his other arm and maybe another knife too, he also has knees, a head to head but, and his teeth in which to bite.

In this story there were clues something was wrong but these men did not pay attention to them. They didn’t heed the warnings. By the time he struck it was to late, they did not have the option to just run, because their kids were there. They died because they were forced to engage this crazy out of control madman probably hyped up on drugs in mortal combat to try to save their kids.

I don’t know if I would have had the time to react quickly enough in this very real scenario to gain distance to employ my own weapons, but I would have fought with every ounce of ferocity and resolve that I had.

So what do you do?

The only way to prepare for something like this is to:
1) Know how the criminal mind works. Know their modus operandi, how they think, how they act, how they pick they’re pray, and how they set up their attack.
2) Stay alert, and be aware.
3) Listen to yourself and trust yourself. When that little voice in you head tells you there is something wrong LISTEN.
4) Be proactive; warn your friends, get your kids and leave.
5) Don’t let him approach your personal space. Warn him to stop in a strong confident voice and if he doesn’t, then prepare to retreat or prepare to fight.
6) Draw your weapon before he has time to draw his. Go offensive before he does! If you are defending then you are already a step or two behind and playing catch up.

I just hope that I would be able to recognize the signs and act (appropriately of course) before a serious life threatening engagement even occurs. I wouldn’t want to go into battle armed with the lies, myths, and the false confidence that so many martial arts schools seem to teach.

[AlexJitsu]

I'd give him a flurry of crescent kicks just like the guy at the end of "Legend of the Drunken Master", and knock the blade out of his hand. Can't go wrong there, the sole of my New Balance shoes are darn thick. These street thugs don't take care of their knives either, they're usually duller than a vietnamese hooker.

Heh, just kidding.

[guy incognito]

Hey my girlfriend is a vietnamese hooker I take ofence!

[AlexJitsu]

As Bruce Lee said, "A man with a weapon is at disadvantage, since he is not thinking about his hands, his feet, or other parts of his body, but only focusing on the weapon."

Of course, that somewhat only applies to brawlers and street fighters, not martial artists. If I had a knife I'd be kicking and punching and everything.

...and yeah, we learn to put them in a wrist lock for knife defenses in Ju-jitsu. I'd say it's one of the more effective knife defenses.

[AlexJitsu]

Yes I do. What the hell is with this board's 10 character mininum?

[darrianation]

You know i had similar thoughts when i herd the if some brawler pulls out a knife, but i didnt bother replying because of the number of variables involved of things that could happen and explaining things would take so long that i just wouldnt bother.

Honestly if you do happen to go unarmed up against an apponent with a knife and you dont have the opportunity/ability/time (you should have been aware) to employ other enviromental weapons against him, a wrist lock is the solve all. As a matter of fact it doesnt matter what he does just put him in a wrist lock. Well i've made my point clear, and BTW: darr knows his stuff, along with others so listen to him.

Anyways back to weapons darr what do you think of the 1911. I know a guy who served in Veitnam and can hit in the black at 100 yards (3 shots 3 hits standing) with what i think is a c. 1941 version of the 1911. I've heard that people claim that they stink for accuracy but what i've seen is incredable.

The colt model 1911 is superb. I used a 1911 in the military and I owned one for about 10 years and really liked it. I sold it my brother about 3 years ago so I still shoot it once and a while. I have a colt model 1991 now along with my sigs and really like it too. A bit finiky with ammo though.

The 1911 can be very accurate with the right trigger pull setting. Out the box still isn’t bad with some practice. However 100 yards (with or without a scope?) is a bit of a stretch.

The problem with wrist locks is you have to get there wrists first. What if it’s a hot day and he’s sweaty and he has lighting fast hands. You could be gutted by the time you have a lock.

Stopping it before it happens is better. Either by awareness and you go offensive first or by retreat. Use kicks to keep him from getting to close so you have time to get to your weapons or hasty weapons that give you distance, like a bat, pool cue, tree branch, and etc. The disarms need to be learned but if it all comes down to that, then prey to God, and hope you get lucky!