my opinion on jkd,and people.

[wcskgh]

listen carefully

i am not on suwandas jock, i loved pa herman, yes, he was a great ro;e model, i just use him as a reference, because i saw him grapple, and i knew alot about his crosstraining. i also love bruce lee, he is what started me in martial arts, but my point is, how can you absorb what is useful, if you use what bruce taught, that is already stripped down, and then you strip it down more,and so on. you could be missing the best part of the art for you, because bruce threw it away.the public, in general, sees jkd as wing chun, thai, grappling and kali. my point is that jkd is a philosophy, it can be tae kwon do, san shou, capoiera,etc. but to call yourself a jkd guy,or you teach jkd, you ,must have a lineage back to bruce, which means you have to learn his arts, which makes jkd a style, not a philosophy.

[Bau]

If you ask me...

Cross training = JKD

you know... training whatever you feel it is you need to grow as a complete fighter..even if its just ONE single technique from a certain martial art...

I get very annoyed with these " original" JKD guys...saying shit like...oh if you dont train Wing CHun...its not JKD...

gimme a break...

[sikal]

Originally posted by J.K.
Yes, there where people crosstraining prior to BL - but he took it a step further. His recognition isn't limited to his MA background - he broke down racial barriers, movie stardom, education, physical achievement, and more. He basicaly came from nothing an achieved more than the average person achieves in a life time in only 30 years.

Excellent point J. K.

But even just within the confines of cross-training. The samurai of feudal Japan cross-trained ... and it probably wasn't a new idea then.

What Bruce did for cross-training was to shine a big spot light on it and point it out to the (primarily American) MA community at large. Yes, there were people already doing it. But the MA community at the time, by and large, considered cross-training taboo.

wcskgh: You seem to be as much a "Herman-o-phile" as a lot of people are "Bruce-o-philes." I have nothing *but* respect for Pak Herman, the Suwanda family, and Mande Muda. Yes, it's a system founded on cross-training ... but even Pak Herman used to tell stories about lying to his instructors about his background so that they would let him train with them. Cross-training was taboo there too. This is one of the reasons that Mande Muda is sometimes called the "JKD of Silat." The Suwanda family did the same thing for cross-training in Indonesia that Bruce Lee did in America.

Mike

[J.K.]

Not every person is studying martial arts to become a teacher/guru/sifu. I would say the majority of people study the art simply for self defense. As we are all aware - to perfect something so complex could take a life time. In my oppionion - bruce tried to put together a system that would be practical and rather easy to learn. The style can be adapted to meet the physical and mental attributes of its practitioners. Some styles are more suitable for particalar people than others. Bruce realized this and extracted the techniques that he felt where useful. Most people have jobs and cant devote their entire lives to perfecting there self defense - however they do have the time to learn how to be safe and defend themselves in a hostile situation. A practioner of JKD Junfan will see a huge difference in his/her ability to defend there selves in about 6 months. If you study 6 months of wing chun you haven't even figured out the footwork. My point is this system was designed to accelerate learning - and I think it does a dam good job. Its extremely versatile - includeing all ranges of combat. It has weapons to make the art even more practical for self defense. One can study weapons for a life time and still have a lot to learn, on the other hand any, one who picks up a weapon such as a knife instantly makes themself even more deadly and equipted for defense.

Yes, many people study the same path/curriculum bruce did. This does not mean they are copying him, but rather exploring what he explored and extracting what is useful. The arts he trained in happen to be very practical, so I think that is why people continue to follow the same path.

Im not sure what your problem is with JKD people. I've trained with hundreds of JKD people and believe me, they can fight. You can't deny the fact that bruce was a pioneer in the martial arts. Yes, there where people crosstraining prior to BL - but he took it a step further. His recognition isn't limited to his MA background - he broke down racial barriers, movie stardom, education, physical achievement, and more. He basicaly came from nothing an achieved more than the average person achieves in a life time in only 30 years. To me he is an excellant role model - which has defienetly influenced my training. By studing a similiar curriculum as bruce - I have learned how to defend myself - So I have achieved my own path and goals.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I've always said that the "absorb/reject" philo should be used within JKD itself as well. Otherwise it is hypocritical. I have been actually yelled at by "original" JKD people because my training now is mostly ground and pound, boxing, and BJJ. For me that is what really works because I have researched it, and spent lots of time sparring and working with different martial artists in those fields. I don't like straightblasting, I don't like a lot of things JKD people do. And it didn't come from one day of trying things out, but constant trial and error over years.
One of the things I hate the most is the fact that I don't seem to claim a "style" of martial art. I use the terms JKD and MMA, but that still doesn't help because people have these images of what those words mean.
People think of trapping and straightblasting when they hear JKD. I do none of those because I find success with other things like wrestling and ground and pound. People think of cage fighting when they hear MMA, but I don't do that either. So I really can't call myself anything. I am even starting to get deeper into Chinese buddhism, and even shaolin philosophy...but
I don't find the actual martial art all that impressive to me in actual combat... (with the exception of say San Shou..another thing I'm really getting interested in.)
The problem with being true to yourself is that you have to be honest, think, and sometimes you can't please everybody.

Ryu

[PentjackSilat]

You are right, JKD is about finding your own path. But where should I begin? What's the perfect martial art to study to start to find my own path? I have to begin somewhere. Where? Should I start with Tae Kwon Do? Karate? Muay Thai? Should I start where Bruce Lee left off and grow from there?
Everyone needs a base. Right? Is it true that everyone first needs to create a foundation, in order to break the foundation? How can you express the music from your soul if you have never played a note?
First you are taught a classical guitar song, but you express yourself with jazz. Was the classical lesson any less important? Or was it a step in your staircase?
How can you know the perfect martial art for you, if you've never taken a martial art before? Should you just pick one, and through the experience you get, narrow down your search?
This is the lesson, from what you are saying, all the JKD people you've ever seen never got. JKD is the starting point. It is meant to give you a foundation in everything, so that you may find your own path.
This is why your taught to Kick, Punch, Trap, Grapple. This is why your taught so many different methods of doing those four. Not, in my opinion, because JKD is a little of all, and therefore the best.
If you show a proficiency in Wing-Chun...take Wing-Chun. The teachers are not there to hold your hand every step of the way and tell you to take Wing-Chun. JKD is about self discovery. How is me telling you to go see Sifu Francis Fong and study Wing-Chun because your good at it, allowing you to find your own path?
If you like Wing-Chun, you will take the initiative. If you don't, then you are either the type of student who has jumped on the bandwagon, or just takes JKD because you want to take martial arts, and couldn't care less if it was JKD or Karate.
JKD teachers shouldn't be teachers. They should be guides who help students find their own path. If you come to me and ask for more Wing-Chun I will guide you. I will not take you by the hand every step of the way. That would be creating a robot.
Also, JKD is not cross-training for the sake of cross-training. JKD is cross-training because you have researched that art and think it has something to offer you.
I hope I don't sound sarcastic. I write all this with the hope of edification. Too many people hop on the JKD bandwagon and never know what JKD is. JKD is not Bruce Lee, nor Inosanto. JKD can be Tae Kwon Do. JKD can be street fighting. JKD is a philosophy you use to train intelligently. But just like there are people out there who get a weekend certification course in Yoga and call themselves masters, so too are there people who have given themselves this title in JKD without true credentials.
Misinformation is rampant!

[wcskgh]

i have trained various arts for along time, not as long as others, and more than some. about 12 yrs total. my problem with jkd, is the way it's taught. first off, jkd is supposed to be a system of take whats useful, and discard the rest. now, i see alot of jkd guys doing chi sau, lop sau, etc. they dont know anything about the forms of wing chun, or the principles, etc.bruce never completed wing chun, so whatever he discarded from what he did learn, then he taught others that much, then more was discarded. what if the parts that bruce didn't learn, would have been best for you? you will never know. what if the best technique for you, was the one that bruce abandoned? now you miss out, and it goes against what bruce preached. so in a way, jkd is hypocritical. absorb whats useful, but again, we are all different shapes and sizes,and attributes. just like bruce not liking high kicks, until meeting norris. i see all jkd schools teaching a mix match of techniques from different arts, this is dumb. you need to learn the arts from start to finish, then eliminate what is useless to you. but people want an easy way out. wing chun is not about trapping, not even close, so you abandon wing chun trapping, because you dont know what it really is. also, i love bruce, but truth is, there were guys crosstraining way before him, kajukendo was before jkd, it was karate, jiu jitsu,and kempo mixed, also my teacher, the late herman suwanda, his dad combined 18 styles of silat together, in the 50's, and in china, bagua,tai qi,and hsing yi were taught together,as was a ton of other arts. if i study eagle claw, hsing yi, silat, and capoeira, can i not have jkd? all these jkd people do is follow a teacher,and study the same arts as bruce, then dan, but that is not jkd. use the 5 ways of attack, with any arts mixed,and economy of motion,etc, and you have jkd. by following a curriculum,of specific moves and styles, you missed the boat. again, im a huge bruce fan. but he always said to find your own truth, not follow his