my opinion on jkd,and people.

[Bruce_Fan]

JKD in different aspects

Hey Pentjacksilat and Ryu,

I am glad you guys enjoyed those quotes.

There are a lot more of them, but it's just too time consuming to type them all out.
I just chose a few that I thought would get the message home.

Too many times, people end up arguing about what kicks or punch you can or cannot use in JKD.
It's difficult to get people to understand the philosophy of Bruce sometimes. (Don't ask my why!)

The great thing about JKD is that it could be used in various parts of life.
It goes along with the statements,
"Absorb what is useful,
Discard what is useless,
Come up with what is truly your own."

Let's say you are in sales and want to be a great sales person. You probably receive advice from all sorts of individuals as to what is the best "Style" or approach.
However, at the end, YOU ARE THE INDIVIDUAL who has to deal with the client and you have to have a presentation that is unique which personifies WHO YOU ARE!
(It definitely helps to have good teachers! LOL)

So, you create what is truly your own. You are that unique individual (Bruce or Steve, or whatever your name may be.)
Now, some people might read this and think it is crap. It really is not.
Expressing your individuality and being unique while drawing on your experiences is important.

Bruce Fan

[Ryu (JKD?)]

That's true, but you need structure to be able to express freedom.

Ryu

[PentjackSilat]

"You must break free from the classical mess."
"Using no way as way.
Having no limitation as limitation."

You mustn't be so rigid with classical structures my friend. The lines should be blurred so that the structure doesn't interfere with the essence.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

According to Taoism, the Tao is unchangable and eternal.
It has no beginning or end, but is always there.

Buddhism on the other hand claims that everything in the universe changes. Nothing stays the same. (except the dharma ) The dharma is pretty much "unchanging"

To me.... well it's too easy to claim you know the mysteries of the universe.
If everything always changes then change itself is stable and unchanging. Thefefore everything in the universe does NOT change. If there is something unchangable without beginning or end then it defies human reason. Another reason we can't "know" the universe.

To me I don't think there is "the end" per se. However I do think there are goals and "rest stops" along the road.

Everything may indeed change......or...... possibly everything is just the same as it has always been from the start. It's impossible to see through the eyes of "God."

But in Taoism, anything spoken of Tao is not the true Tao.....


I spend too much time with this stuff

Ryu

[PentjackSilat]

I don't think it's something to perfect. I don't think it's something to master. I don't think it's something that can be completed. It is a way of life. Not a way of half your life.

It is a journey. Everything changes and evolves. Which is why you can't master anything. Because to master something implies it is static and unchangeable.

And the one thing that holds true in the universe is that everything changes. There is no end. It is all a circle to be rode upon. There is no pot of gold and there is no master.

There is the journey.

And that is Tao. The end being no end. The interplay of two opposites for eternity. All matter has been here since the Big Bang. The matter that you are made of.

Your skin was part of the Big Bang. Everything is just recycled matter. The atoms that make you could of been a Star trillions of years ago. Do you think new matter just appears? No. It is the same that has been floating around since time began. Changing, exchanging. Picking up new electrons and forming new molecules. Adapting to better suit the environment around it that is constantly adapting to it!

And that is the lesson.

There is no end.

There is no goal.

There is the adventure.

The journey.

That is what you focus on. The road, not the destination.

[martialmaster66]

Great Point of view...but in a book of his that I once read, a section called "about Jeet Kune Do" stated-

"Jeet Kune Do isn't just a style of Self-Defence, but a way of life. This style is merely a guidance in which you may continue until the guide ends."

In other words JKD isn't something to master. It's something to perfect. How you do it or what way you do is all up to you

[PentjackSilat]

Thank you

[Bruce_Fan]

WORDS OF THE MAN HIMSELF!

Hey Wcskgh,

I've followed this discussion. Some of it I agree with, and some of it I don't.
You mentioned tapes for exchanging. I'd be interested in exchanging JKD tapes. MY email is listed.


As far as the Way JKD is taught today: I think it'd depend on who your teacher is. I am sure Vunak, Inosanto, or Burton would teach it differently than many others.

As for Trapping: Like Paul Vunak said in his interview, Trapping is a RANGE. You see it in UFC too. When two guys get in a clinch, some are very good at throwing uppercuts and knees. Some don't do it at all, and I wonder why they don't in such a great opportunity. (Off the top of my head, I remember a couple of fighters throwing some good and effective uppercuts in the clinch.)
That is trapping!
---------------------------

Do you have the book called "Bruce Lee, The celebrated life of the Golden Dragon"?
It is edited by John Little in a series of books he did on Bruce.
This book has MANY EXCELLENT QUOTES BY BRUCE HIMSELF!
I think anyone who wants to understand JKD Better should read these quotes of Bruce.

One day, I should sit down and type all this quotes. Here are some excerpts from BRUCE LEE:

".......On the Contrary, I hope to free my followers from Styles."

"Therefore, to define JKD as a particular system (gung fu, Karate, etc.) is to miss it completely."

"Drilling on routines and set patterns will eventually make a person be good according to the routines and set pattern, but only self-awareness and self expression can lead to the truth.................. The INDIVIDUAL is always more important than the system. "

"JKD rejects all restrictions and imposed by form and formalities and emphasized the clever use of mind and body to defend and attack."

"However, I began to lose faith in the Chinese classical because, basically, all styles are products of dry-land swimming, so my line of training [moved] more towards efficient street fighting with EVERYTHING GOES ; Wearing headgear, gloves, chest guard, shin/knee guards, etc. I changed the name of the gist of my study to Jeet Kune Do."

"Anytime other writers write about JKD, they write it according to their knowledge. One cannot see a fight "As is" say from the point of view of a boxer, a wrestler, or anyone who is trained in a particular method, because he will see the fight according to the limits of his particular conditioning. Take for instance the boxer: He will probably criticize the fact that the two fighters are too close to allow for crispy punching room. On the hand, the wrestler will complain that one of the fighters should crowd and smother the other's "Crispiness," and thus be close enough to apply grappling tactics. So a split second between the above two statements, the boxer could have switched into grappling tactics when there is no crispy punching room. The wrestler, when out of distance, could have kicked our punched as a man to bridge the gap for his specialty."

"Remember well my friend that all styles are man-made and the man is always more important than any style. Style concludes. Man grows.

Those are words from the man himself. Take from what it what you will. I think in times of confusion, it's good to go back and see what it was that Bruce intended.

Bruce_Fan

[J.K.]

wcskgh

Hey, I saw from your profile that you are an acupunture student. Do you know any good natropathic remedies for allergies? I used to see an acupunturist/natropatbic specialist and he gave me some green herbal pills for my allergies - I don't recall the name and the guy moved out of state. My allergies are starting flare up now that spring is hear and I need a safe cure. LMK

[wcskgh]

thanks guys

i only have about a half hour a day, to be on the net, and mainly because im injured, but i really enjoy talking with you guys,and exchanging opinions. my thread took off, and it was fun, i learned from you guys, and appreciate that. anyone wanting to exchange tapes or anything also, feel free to e mail me.

[J.K.]

i agree with you on getting a ton of techniques thrown at you and then trying to apply it is next to impossible. I have only experienced this at seminars - where there is no time to isolate. You get exposed to a ton of techniques and drills in a short period of time. THats where your notebook comes in handy. Write down the drills and practice and isolate on your own. As far as the drills you mentioned not working in a street fight - you forgot the operative word -drills. Drills were not meant to be applied verbatum on the street - the are a way of developing one self through repition.

Anyways - i am seeing your point. There are a ton of seminar hopers who attend a couple of 8 hour sessions and get exposed to a million techniques and cant apply one of them. Isolation is key - to ones developement. Isolate your week areas and make them strong.

I also agree that thai and jj seem to come out the most in sparring. This has been my experience. I try to stay in the clinch/close quater and use pumbling techniques,headbutts,knees, and elbows.

I to had a teacher that I spent a lot of time (8years). I left the state and began exploring different styles and realized tht my prior teacher wasn't all I thought he was. I had to relearn a lot of techniques the right way and gained new understanding. Like I said you have to do your homework before choosing a school/teacher.

[gungfuhero]

I have been shying away from internet forums, but it's fun to step in every now and again...

Everybody is so worried about "where it's at." Some think that if it isn't trained by the current NHB athletes that it is crap. Others think that cross training is tarnishing the holy grail of jeet kune do and is a sign of a lack of knowledge in its ways. Some are drill and technique junkies who are on the edge of every trend. These camps all have the same error in their reasoning. They are all still trying to find "THE STYLE." If you boil down their arguments it sounds like a cheesy kung fu flick. "If you train in such and such art you will be unbeatable" or "my sifu has such and such certification and is therefore a badass" or "if you only grasped this one idea you will see the proverbial light." No. It isn't that easy. Rather than speculate on an internet forum, learn the cause of your own ignorance and cut your path. This kind of dungeons and dragons martial arts role playing, which style works stuff doesn't prove anything. It is the same as when every stand up fighter thought he could easily fend of the grappler in the 80's. Rather than argue over stylistic superiority, we would all be better off by rejecting partiality and working on becoming complete fighters.

[wcskgh]

i get your point, but you missed mine

i dont think our argument was over jkd being functional or not, all i said was that the way its taught today is a far cry from what bruce did. now, instead of doing what bruce did, everyone is just teaching a thousand techniques. i also know very legitimate teachers, i studied with many guys, one decieved me, not all of them. i spoke to vunak yesterday, i consider him legite. but again, its not the art i was saying is wrong, but how its taught. as far as jun fan , i like it, but heres some drills from my notes from a real jkd instructor pak da/biu gee lap da/pak da/lop da
next one is kow sau biu gee step slide round kick cross hook cross,slide step, side kick. on and on. bootom l;ine, this wont work in the street. not that erik paulson or vunak cant pull it off, but for most street fights, i agree with vunak, on straight blast, head buts knees and elbows. again, i love jkd, i just hate to go train at a school, and do 90 million trapping drills, and a little of this and a little of that, and never be explained principles of each and every system, and know why it works. if you dont know principles, you will think a technique dont work for you, but in reality, you may have done it wrong because you dont understand the principles. that was my argument. i like some jkd classes,and i have fun with the art, but the most practical of the jun fan is the kickboxing portion. as far as me learning from real teachers, im now with li tailiang as a private disciple, and learned what a joke my skills from jkd, kali, etc were, after trying anything on him. then from learning about structure and energy,etc in fine detail, i was able to see what was missing in my past training, and i went back and tried to learn more about the principles. jkd guys claim to be all about the street, but alot of the material will not work for a guy that does it in class for a few weeks,and moves on to the next drills. i have friends at dans school, and they love it, its like a martial arts candy store, but they even say, that thai and shoot are the arts that come out, when everyone spars. i hope to train there myself, i just love all the arts. but now that i understand things from a real fighter and master, that took time with me, and laughed at all the materrial i amassed,and mastered so little, i see a big difference in my approach

[J.K.]

I never disputed wrestling as being a legit form of self defense. But you can't claim one will win over the other - to many variables come into play. I don't hide behind a blade - just making a point that there is a difference between sport and life/death. I don't have a problem with NHB fighting - ive competed in mixed martail arts and I do believe that it does show ones ability to protect oneself. I was just pointing out the possible wholes in your argument that jkd people do not understand the art they train or the practitioners recieve water down/incomplete information. Yes, this happening - like in all arts - their are frauds. But you can't deny the amount of serious practioners who study Junfan. There are plenty of teachers out there that are legit and have plenty to offer. It may be your experience that you have not found a realdeal teacher in the junfan system ( if you wan't I can give you some names of valid teachers - and you can meet with them and then tell me if they have nothing to offer). However, their are plenty of people who train under legit teachers that are achieving goals to be able to defend themselves as well as living a better life. So, I don't want to sit here and argue about hypothetical situations "like a wrestler wins against kali all the time" its silly. I will state that no style is a gaurenteed winner and it is up to the person training - not the style. So if you are a motivated student you will seek out truth and not let the wool be pulled over your eyes by some high priced - mass produced - psedo instructor.

One question if you dislike kali somuch why did you stick with it for ten years and why didn't you just take up wrestling?

[PentjackSilat]

Very good point that a knife isn't the end all. But you know what I like to do for fun. Roll with a training knife. It's a lot of fun, and an eye opener.