Bruce Lee's Size.

[jjlean]

Jowan's Original Thread

Jowan:

It's probably going to be very hard to pin down why Bruce was as lean (small) as he was, for he is really the only one that could answer that question. However, as a lean (small) guy myself, I can perhaps shed a little light on the subject:

I am 5'11" tall and weigh 158lbs (as of this morning). My body fat has been electronically measured to be between 3.5% to 4.8%. I run about 35-45 miles per week, and I do anywhere from 1500 to 2000 pushups and 1000 chin-ups per week (spread out over 3 or 4 workouts). It is generally recognized that bodyweight training, sparring, grappling, or training how Bruce did does NOT build an impressive set of biceps and pecs. Bruce's training consumed an enormous quantity of energy, and he would have been hard pressed to consume enough calories (protein, ect.) to build the muscles that so many 18-40 year old males aspire to. Bruce's training (geared toward testing and improving his technique) did help him develop amazing power and speed that was functional for a top level martial artist. Huge bench press pectorals and bowling ball biceps would have severely restricted his range of motion, skewered his form, and would have sapped his extraordinary power by not allowing him to fully execute his technique. Many black belt level Karate and Kung Fu practitioners I have spoken to feel the same way about ridiculously large muscles: While impressive, they do not generally help a martial artist because, as they say, "...the muscles get in the way most of the time". Granted, there are a some notable exceptions (Bolo Yeung, who did some Olympic style weightlifting) but a vast majority of the upper level practitioners look like your average guy. Chow-Yun Fat and Jet Li...do they have muscles like Hulk Hogan??? Of course not. Jet Li did some hardcore Shaolin style training, the bulk of which focused on bodyweight exercises and calisthenics. Don't let the meatheads in the gyms tell you otherwise, those types of exercises will help you get stronger, it's just going to take a longer commitment to them. If all of my blowhard preaching is confusing you, just remember this: Bruce's training was geared towards his chosen profession. Therefore, he did not train to just "get huge". Dorian Yates' training was geared towards his chosen profession (bodybuilding). Therefore, he did not train to master the one inch punch.

jjlean

[Thai Bri]

"Chow-Yun Fat and Jet Li...do they have muscles like Hulk Hogan??? Of course not. Jet Li did some hardcore Shaolin style training, the bulk of which focused on bodyweight exercises and calisthenics. Don't let the meatheads in the gyms tell you otherwise, those types of exercises will help you get stronger, it's just going to take a longer commitment to them."

I think I know who my money would be on in a fight between these. And he doesn't do high kicks.

[chris davis 200]

Chow-Yun Fat and Jet Li...do they have muscles like Hulk Hogan??? Of course not. Jet Li did some hardcore Shaolin style training, the bulk of which focused on bodyweight exercises and calisthenics.

Jet li did Wu shu - the Gymanastic style of standardised Martial Arts developed by the communist chinese government. and although very demanding, it is more akin to Gymnastics than Chinese Martial arts.

He is / was a very flexible capable practitioner of Wu Shu - but i do not rate his Martial ability.

Cheers
Chris

[Jowan]

Re: SIZE

jjlean, thank you so much for that contribution! it is by far the most relevant to my question, and it is lucky that i came on today, i have not seen this thread for the last month or so!!!
why so many people have posted utter crap on it i don't know!
I have a question though, apparently charles bronson (hardest man in britain apparently) could only do bodyweight exercises because he was in prison his entire life, and his muscles were absolutely huge.
Please tell me you have scientific evidence for calisthenics! i would much appreciate that!
-Jowan-

[Lizard]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
"Chow-Yun Fat and Jet Li...do they have muscles like Hulk Hogan??? Of course not. Jet Li did some hardcore Shaolin style training, the bulk of which focused on bodyweight exercises and calisthenics. Don't let the meatheads in the gyms tell you otherwise, those types of exercises will help you get stronger, it's just going to take a longer commitment to them."

I think I know who my money would be on in a fight between these. And he doesn't do high kicks.

Hulk hogan once beat up three other wrestlers even though he had a broken leg (I think he hobbled all the way from the hospital). The guys he beat up were pretty big too.

[IPON]

Jowen:

I would agree with other posts that state that the body stype has more to do with a diet and type of workout. If you look at Bruce's lifestyle, he was a cardio furnace constantly working out to improve. So the aspect of his metabolism playing a factor would be true. There was an article in Muscle & Fitness (I will try to find it) that just focused on his phsyque and the level dense muscle tissue.

I think the reason for not bulking was that bruce generally focused on high reps for speed and muscular endurance. From what I understand it was actually Bolo that gave Bruce a serious introduction to weight training. Wing chun generally does not emahazie weight training (including ab work) as it is felt the it will interfere with striking power. A wing Chun Maxum is: Cotton belly, Glass head and steel bridge". Bruce did not agree with this after he got his first taste of weight training. I think he realized that there are different ways to train muscle and that not all are bad. I am sure he was overtraining becuase that was his mentallity to be the best and take everything to the limits.

generally speaking high weight/low reps, protein and rest, are all great for building mass but not so great for fighting and I know there is a lot of debate about this issue ..... but generally being "muscle bound" can restrict a fighter when compared to them having less bulk. That is not to say that somone with extreme bulk cannot fight...but the reality most guys in th IBF can barely walk much less throw a solid puch (just joking). Bolo made alot of movies becuase of his size not based on his martial ability he is actually slow compared to most stylists.

As an aside I understand that Bruce and Bolo got into a fight (it was on the set I don't know the year) becuase Big Bolo thought the little dragon was fill of crap about his fighting ability. The fight lasted as long as it took me to type the word "the" and the little dragon gave big bolo a wakeup call.

[Jowan]

from what i understand it was bruce's friends that got him into weights when he moved to the states, but i could be wrog. never heard of bolo and bruce fighting though.
and bruce concentrated on normal reps, not high reps.
but i agree he was a cardio furnace!
can anyone tell me why working the muscules at lower contraction (high reps) would not increase mass? i though if you work the muscles to a certain level of fatigue, using high or low reps, it made mass improve.
-jowan-

[akja]

Originally posted by Jowan
from what i understand it was bruce's friends that got him into weights when he moved to the states, but i could be wrog. never heard of bolo and bruce fighting though.
and bruce concentrated on normal reps, not high reps.
but i agree he was a cardio furnace!
can anyone tell me why working the muscules at lower contraction (high reps) would not increase mass? i though if you work the muscles to a certain level of fatigue, using high or low reps, it made mass improve.
-jowan-

You gain more mass from low reps because you are able to lift much more weight than you can at high reps.

An example would be if you regularly curl 70 lbs. at 8-10 reps. Then at high reps, 15-20 reps you would go down to 50-55 lbs.

But at low reps, you want to lift the most anywhere from 3-6 reps. For the same guy he would probably (try) curl 90-95 lbs.

One of my old training partners actually uses 3 reps. He's a Filipino, short and his body weight went from 97 lbs. to 205 lbs. (I shit you not), over many years. He's a HOG. Though, all mass and hardly any cut.

[Jowan]

Re:

Thank you for that answer!
So what do high reps do?
increase neuromuscular contraction?
(how many fibers contract in the muscle at the same time)
The way i see it, when your muscles are getting fatigued, they are acting like there is 100% contraction, and therefore 100% weight being added on your muscles, because say you only have enough fibers that are active to life 5 kg, then that will be 100% of your muscle contraction if you are lifting a 5kg weight, so therefore theye would be a lot of hypertrophy in those muscles, am i right or am i wrong?
+ i thought that the REASON muscles hypertrophy is because they are damaged (i.e. fatigued so they cannot contract). that is a state that can be gained from low or high reps. light of heavy weights.
unless your mind has some way of telling how many fibers you hav, and how many are contracting, that way if you were contarcting 100% it would KNOW, and cause hypertrophy, but this is doubtful.
-Jowan-

[Thai Bri]

You'll find that the top body builders, who are massive compared to power lifers, us lower weights and higher reps.

Akja, I reckon you have it the wrong way around. Higher rep ranges keep your muscles flushed with blood for longer, hence more growth.

But, of course, they do not have the strength of powerlifters.

[Nutz]

Actually, the strength you gain in doing heavier weights come as much from the stuctures that support the muscles as the muscles themselves. If you want strength, work your tendons and ligaments.

[akja]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
You'll find that the top body builders, who are massive compared to power lifers, us lower weights and higher reps.

Akja, I reckon you have it the wrong way around. Higher rep ranges keep your muscles flushed with blood for longer, hence more growth.

But, of course, they do not have the strength of powerlifters.

Thats true but they did not use less weight to get their size. More weight, less reps gains mass.

[Nutz]

Originally posted by akja


Thats true but they did not use less weight to get their size. More weight, less reps gains mass.

No. He had it right to begin with--He said compared to powerlifters, bodybuilders use less weight and do more reps.

Don't get me wrong here. I agree with the content of your message. I'm just saying you missed to context of his post. Hell, its pretty much common knowledge these days that in order to gain mass you need to go heavier. That's how you damage the muscle fibers so they grow back stronger & thicker--the general concensus is that the more intensity you apply towards your workout, the more damage done (thus spurring more growth).

[akja]

Originally posted by Nutz


No. He had it right to begin with--He said compared to powerlifters, bodybuilders use less weight and do more reps.

Don't get me wrong here. I agree with the content of your message. I'm just saying you missed to context of his post. Hell, its pretty much common knowledge these days that in order to gain mass you need to go heavier. That's how you damage the muscle fibers so they grow back stronger & thicker--the general concensus is that the more intensity you apply towards your workout, the more damage done (thus spurring more growth).

Sounds like I mis-read. It through me off when he I had it backwards.

I tell you I get a hell of a pump when I lift lighter, probably from the ability to use strict form at lighter weight. But to grow, its that heavy weight that will get one there.

[Jowan]

Re:

No-one has answered my question about calisthenics and gaining mass.
you lot don't use scientific terms, but cultural terms. and this causes confusion all round. i dont mean to sound like a nerd btw lol
-Jowan-