Originally posted by kuk sool won
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- Aug 2003
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"Some of us are like a 10 speed bike; most of us have gears we never use." - Joe Eigo
"the greatest gift that martial arts can give is destruction of the ego"
"Life is just a mountain, and each martial art is just another way to the top."
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Originally posted by kuk sool wonI disagree with some of the disadvantages there, one of them Medic06 has already pointed out. Spear hands, palm fists, knife hands etc. are all extremely effective if you know how to use them. Martial arts isn't just about competing, in a self defence situation they can be remarkably useful but due to the sporting side of MA they aren't practiced in sparring and therefore aren't used. Why do you think they are in basically any art out there?
Originally posted by tkd_person89Everyone is enetitled to his own opinion but I very much disagree with PStevens.
His post was no more than an implication that TKD sucks. I'd like to ask him why he thinks TKD sucks. Have you fought an ycompetent TKD artist, Stevens?
Were you in a McDojo? Anything could've traumatized your opinion .....
On a further note, I DID mention that I competed... I didn’t want to go into the details, because it would sound like bragging, but since you probed, I will tell you... I was something of a TKD prodigy in my neck of the woods - I’ve taken 1st place in sparring in nearly every one of the 19 tournaments I entered nationwide throughout 6 years. In fact, my first tournament was at Bae Yung Kim’s (mispelled) National in Minnesota when I was 9. I took 1st place in sparring, breaking and forms in the Blue to Brown Belt division.
Originally posted by medic06I have to disagree. The forms have a place but should be the means and not the ends.
In TKD, you’re taught these rudimentary static postures, then expected to do a complete 180 when you’re sparring.
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Originally posted by pstevensGood form follows function. In the case of TKD, your forms only hinder. I don’t believe you get into your front stance, cross your arms, then proceed to low block during sparring, or do you?... You’re more likely move outside of range, parry or bridge the gap to avoid the blow. In which case, these techniques and the perfection of these techniques, should be your training.
In TKD, you’re taught these rudimentary static postures, then expected to do a complete 180 when you’re sparring.
Forms are designed to teach, well, form. They are only a small part of what your training should consist of. Like I said before, they are a means and not the end.
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- Aug 2005
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyBr7ZdwnPo Woman hitting pimp gets beat down - karma baby!
http://www.comegetyousome.com/viewvid.php?id=1623
Wonderful set of knockouts!
Love your BOB http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2363831283
No, no, no, no, no, no..... Forms and patterns are not meant to be put into a sparring stiuation like that. They are a logical transition of moves against an attacker or multiple attackers... And yes the chances of a fight going in similar way to a form are....well.....even less than you could imagine. What forms do achieve however is as you get better and better at your forms, because there will always be something you can do to make it better, that motion will become more natural and translate into sparring and realistic situations, making each technique better, how you piece it together is your decision. Also there is a very good reason us TKD'ers bring the hands up like that into a cross with the wrist back to wrist back, in fact its twofold:
1. Should somone attack with a lot of power to your head its far better to have the two hands there protecting your head, many times when I spar full contact outside of my dojang my opponents will bring only one hand in a boxing style guard mostly, to stop a kick to the head, it just simply isn't enough if my foot makes contact. They end up either knocking their own head with their hand, or find themselves forced to buckle somewhat.
2. Having the hands crossed as stated above allow for a quick counter if a punch is launched at ones head, grabbing the opponents arm with outer hand and using the innner hand to force them down on the shoulder, allowing for copious amounts of head kicking/arm breaking.
Originally posted by pstevensSpear and knife hands have been preserved due to tradition, not because they work.
Originally posted by pstevensI was something of a TKD prodigy in my neck of the woods - I’ve taken 1st place in sparring in nearly every one of the 19 tournaments I entered nationwide throughout 6 years. In fact, my first tournament was at Bae Yung Kim’s (mispelled) National in Minnesota when I was 9.
Originally posted by pstevensAnd in the real world, punching is faster and more efficient.
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Originally posted by medic06You expect to use a training tool to fight? You wouldn't drop and do 50 pushups in the middle of a fight would you?
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Piston,
6 years is a lot of time in TKD, considering it only takes 2-3 years to make black belt. And NEVER did I suggest to be an authority on TKD - I merely stated that it is lacking in several departments.
Aside from that, your gross exaggerations of TKD are truly pathetic... There's no way a TKDer kicks faster than a boxer punching. I'd really like to see that one. Would that explain why in the in history of kickboxing, most champions were great boxers? Puahaha... I rest my case, these types of beliefs are what's wrong with TKD. End of discussion.
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Originally posted by pstevensPiston,
6 years is a lot of time in TKD, considering it only takes 2-3 years to make black belt. And NEVER did I suggest to be an authority on TKD - I merely stated that it is lacking in several departments.
Aside from that, your gross exaggerations of TKD are truly pathetic... There's no way a TKDer kicks faster than a boxer punching. I'd really like to see that one. Would that explain why in the in history of kickboxing, most champions were great boxers? Puahaha... I rest my case, these types of beliefs are what's wrong with TKD. End of discussion.
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Originally posted by pstevensThis is your analogy? Everyone knows push-ups are meant for body strength conditioning, whereas forms and static blocking are meant to emulate actual combat. There's the difference.
Nope, that's your intepretation
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Originally posted by medic06Nope, that's your intepretation
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Registered User
- Aug 2005
- 307
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyBr7ZdwnPo Woman hitting pimp gets beat down - karma baby!
http://www.comegetyousome.com/viewvid.php?id=1623
Wonderful set of knockouts!
Love your BOB http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2363831283
Originally posted by pstevensPiston,
6 years is a lot of time in TKD, considering it only takes 2-3 years to make black belt. And NEVER did I suggest to be an authority on TKD - I merely stated that it is lacking in several departments.
Aside from that, your gross exaggerations of TKD are truly pathetic... There's no way a TKDer kicks faster than a boxer punching. I'd really like to see that one. Would that explain why in the in history of kickboxing, most champions were great boxers? Puahaha... I rest my case, these types of beliefs are what's wrong with TKD. End of discussion.
Originally posted by PistonGood TKD'ers can kick like a boxer punches i.e fast and hard. Just because you couldn't in your brief spell of TKD doesn't mean squat.
And with your time in TKD, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be acting as an authority on TKD, 6 years in any MA does mean something, but from the age of 9-15....It wouldn't be the same as say someone learning from 20-26, because they are of greater mental maturity and thus are able to understand what they are doing better.
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JKD and I have been talking online for the past couple of days, and this is what we have established.
We have already established that all of the great fighters, even the traditional ones, like Oyama and Bruce, have crosstrained in multiple styles. Thus, it's clear that one must have many different styles and techniques hand to be a truly great fighter.
However, as a traditional standup fighting art, Taekwondo is just fine. In open martial arts competitions, between TKD vs Kungfu vs Karate vs Kickboxing, TKD has a very good record. As a single standup art, TKD is perfectly good against other single arts, although grapplers would be especially dangerous.
Also, people complain and yell about TKD's "complex" kicks like the back spin hook kick. They think they can just go over and "knock the guy" over. Well.. they're wrong. Why don't you try to knock down a fast Olympic champion doing a back spin hook kick? Many of TKD's so-called "complex" kicks have a place in fights. They are perfectly useful kicks. I agree, things like the "tornado kick" and "jump back spin hook kick" may not be the most realistic but it's clear that TKD is THE number 1 kicking art.
Also, roundhouse is the main kick of TKD guys anyway.
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Piston,
My 6 years in TKD were under formal lessons... You know, paid for by my parents, under a Korean Master, in a dojang with other kids, etc... However, that was but one experience in my martial arts training. I went on to do boxing, MT, JJJ, some kung-fu here and there, BJJ and now more or less MMA. I'm speaking through an accumulation of these experiences, not as a 9 year old blue belt in TKD.
Now, in regards to your argument. TKD kicks CAN generate power, I don't dispute that, but they lack many things that boxing punches have, including: space, precision, economy of motion, and ofcourse the same speed of delivery. In short, if we relate this to the thread, knowing this - TKDers should invest in boxing and discard their attempts to mimic it.
tkd_person89,
I find it peculiar that you asked for feedback on the shortcomings of TKD, then criticize those who offer it. If TKD is as complete as you believe it is, then why don't we just leave it at that... Oh, and BTW... I was a TKD prodigy.
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Registered User
- Aug 2005
- 307
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyBr7ZdwnPo Woman hitting pimp gets beat down - karma baby!
http://www.comegetyousome.com/viewvid.php?id=1623
Wonderful set of knockouts!
Love your BOB http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2363831283
Originally posted by pstevensPiston,
My 6 years in TKD were under formal lessons... You know, paid for by my parents, under a Korean Master, in a dojang with other kids, etc... However, that was but one experience in my martial arts training. I went on to do boxing, MT, JJJ, some kung-fu here and there, BJJ and now more or less MMA. I'm speaking through an accumulation of these experiences, not as a 9 year old blue belt in TKD.
Now, in regards to your argument. TKD kicks CAN generate power, I don't dispute that, but they lack many things that boxing punches have, including: space, precision, economy of motion, and ofcourse the same speed of delivery. In short, if we relate this to the thread, knowing this - TKDers should invest in boxing and discard their attempts to mimic it.
To say that TKD lacks space (by this you mean range?), precision economy of motion and speed of delivery is well....ridiculous. If you think that an MA that focuses greater on specifically kicks, and lacks these things in its teaching, either your training was crap (remember there were, and still are a lot of bogus "korean masters", especially in America), or you simply didn't absorb it as many kids don't. The whole "child prodigy" thing is well....a little overstated you were *9* and competing in TKD in Minnesota alone...That doesn't make you brilliant.
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