The Tae Kwon Do Thread... Your thoughts.

[Ghost]

Instead of excessiveCraps description and comparison of the Thai round kick and TKD round kick here is mine.

The Thai one bloody hurts.

The TKD stings a bit.

Thats it.

Forget your star trek crap with your impulse factor waves and all that its simple. Get it?

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I agree with Ghost, the TKD kicks really aren't that great. The reason being is because the TKD kick uses soley leg power, while the Thai kick utilizes your weight, leg power, and waist power.

[Great Sage]

Yeah... I used to have the same naive assumption that Thai Kicks were slow and telegraphed, but after seeing real thai fights and sparring, I became a believer in Muay Thai. I've never seen the banana bag fly the way Muay Thai guys kick it.

As far as the History of TKD goes... ExcessiveForce seems to have the same generalization that most TKD guys have. However, it has never been proven that TKD is based upon the native arts of Korea. Most likely, TKD is Japanese karate with more emphasis on kicking... Many of the founders of TKD studied karate in Japan or Korea. Many scholars regard the General Choi story of training fighters secretly as a myth.

Tae Kyun is the supposed ancient ancestor of TKD, but that remains to be proven. TK kicks are chambered very differently and the are much harder to perform. Furthermore, TK consists of only 18 movements — with no hand techniques! Frankly, I don't see how effective that can be, but that's beside the point.

A more accurate history of TKD, based on known facts, is that it was Japanese karate that developed over time in Korea. Much the same way as Chinese kung-fu developed into karate on Okinawa. The Koreans preferred the kicking aspect of karate and developed that into what we know today as Tae Kwon Do.

[falcon3624]

I beleive that it was actually Okinawan karate and not Japanese. Most Japanese frowned upon teaching Koreans (I think they thought Koreans were inferior) whereas the Okinawans were pretty much in the same position with occupation by Japan, and did not have problems teaching Koreans.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I've seen He ill Cho demolish a bag with a flying spinning back kick
Bags tears open on the other side

I myself have noticed that the more flexible you are the less you have to use your hips to be able to kick high, if you are less flexible you have to use the hip

TKD people do a lot of stretching and tend to be very very flexible, result strait up roundhousekicks to the head
At karate I had a few student who could do that,although we considdered them less powerfull, they do have the power to break a jaw or even a persons palete
These were 60-70 Kg guys fighting 85-90 Kg guys so the lighter build broke the jaw of the heavier build

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by falcon3624
I beleive that it was actually Okinawan karate and not Japanese. Most Japanese frowned upon teaching Koreans (I think they thought Koreans were inferior) whereas the Okinawans were pretty much in the same position with occupation by Japan, and did not have problems teaching Koreans.

No... It was Japanese Karate... During the Japanese occupation of Korea, it was outlawed to practice Korean arts, but one could learn Japanese martial arts, culture, etc... Several Koreans continued their Karate training in Japan after the war... Please refrain from hypothesizing about history.

[falcon3624]

I am pretty sure that there were alot of Koreans that moved to Okinawa to learn karate. I know that shorin-ryu and goju-ryu both were pretty big parts in the basis of TKD and TSD.

[eXcessiveForce]

Star Trek huh, I guess physics has nothing to do with martial arts. The whole Mass, speed and power thing obviously has escaped you.

Thai kicks hurt that's why I do them, But i've knocked more people out with Snap kicks than with Thai kicks.


I can only assume that some of you are lousy kickers because your experience with TKD kicks is radically different than mine.

As for history I gave you a general run down of what is commonly thought. I personally do not care about the history of TKD as it has no relevence to my training nor my teaching.

I will note that ITF Taekwondo and Shotokan Karate are damn near the same thing.

I have also seen Hee Il Cho destroy a bag. Its incredible.

I've also seen TKD guys kicking though baseball bats for over 20 years. So much for shin conditioning being only muay thai.


Seems you all have a rather limited perspective and are not really interested in gaining knowledge but rather to argue about whether TKD which you all say is crap came from Japan or Okinawa

[fullcircle]

a TKD kick uses solely leg power? Uh, no. Learn one, then post.

[Tom Yum]

TKD kicks use simultaneous rotation and push off from the supporting leg with a chamber and snap from the kicking leg. The result is a fast, hard kick with whip power delivered from a relatively small surface area of contact (ball of foot, heel). That's why jaws get fractured and internal organs can take damage. The kicks can pierce better than they can smash. In Thai boxing, the kicks smash, wheras the different knee strikes both smash and pierce which explains the few deaths each year in muay thai.

The only kicks that utilize the hips are the crescent kicks. And most experienced TKD people use the crescent kicks to disrupt the hands in 'fighting position' and create an opening for a side kick, hook kick, turning side kick or spining hook kick.

Most traditional MAs came about, because the country that originated them cycled through times of chaotic war and stretches of peace. During peace times, MA were frowned upon and often went into hiding. By taking the devastating techniques out of arts (as Kano did with Jiu Jitsu and Gen Choi? did with Tae Kyon) they were able to create a martial sport - judo & tae kwon do which would become popular during peace time.

The reason why I think MT is harder to deal with is because of the intensity of conditioning, application of technique and one belt system (earn it in the ring).

[Tom Yum]

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce

Thai kicks hurt that's why I do them, But i've knocked more people out with Snap kicks than with Thai kicks.

As for history I gave you a general run down of what is commonly thought. I personally do not care about the history of TKD as it has no relevence to my training nor my teaching.

I have also seen Hee Il Cho destroy a bag. Its incredible.

I've also seen TKD guys kicking though baseball bats for over 20 years. So much for shin conditioning being only muay thai.

You can't forget that many TKD schools in the US are Mc Dojangs out for the buck only - naturally quality suffers.

The reason why TKD kicks sometimes work in MT is because some MT fighters are not used to the turning side kick or axe kick. The ones that are will jam the kick a number of ways and put you on your back in another.

Real Korean TKD (in Korea) is practiced with alot of intensity and repetition. You throw 1,000s of kicks per day - not 10 of this one and 10 of that. Koreans demand higher quality from Koreans (or Westerners with cajones) who inturn will take TKD seriously enough to not only practice in the dojang for 2-3 times a week for an hour, but who will spend 4 hrs in the morning/evening jogging, rope jumping or kicking targets. Its an unspoken law in Korea (or Japan, China, Thailand) that which ever martial art you practice, you practice it for real thousands of times until perfect technique becomes second nature and with the intensity of a life-death situation. This not only shows respect for the quality of your instructors advice, but turns you into a competitive martial artist with fighting spirit.

Read the stories of Asian instructors teaching for the first time in the US. They didn't charge a lot for lessons, but pushed students really hard. As a result, students gave up and a teacher found himself with few students. The second generation probably decided to water it down a little, keep mores students and discovered they could charge a little more. Generation after generation did this until you end up paying $150 per month for 1 TKD lesson per week, earning a yellow belt in 2 months.

[Ghost]

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce
Star Trek huh, I guess physics has nothing to do with martial arts. The whole Mass, speed and power thing obviously has escaped you.

Thai kicks hurt that's why I do them, But i've knocked more people out with Snap kicks than with Thai kicks.


I can only assume that some of you are lousy kickers because your experience with TKD kicks is radically different than mine.

As for history I gave you a general run down of what is commonly thought. I personally do not care about the history of TKD as it has no relevence to my training nor my teaching.

I will note that ITF Taekwondo and Shotokan Karate are damn near the same thing.

I have also seen Hee Il Cho destroy a bag. Its incredible.

I've also seen TKD guys kicking though baseball bats for over 20 years. So much for shin conditioning being only muay thai.


Seems you all have a rather limited perspective and are not really interested in gaining knowledge but rather to argue about whether TKD which you all say is crap came from Japan or Okinawa

I never said shin conditioning is only Mauy Thai
I belive i have witnessed some of the most powerful TKD and Mauyt Thai kicks it is my opinion that the MT kicks are more pwerful and I tell you one thing The TKD guys sure slow down after a few shin blocks.


Maybe we should have a poll on it and see which way popular opinion goes.

Dont give me any crap about mechanics ive done it at degree level and the thai kicks have better mechanics, so sod off.

[falcon3624]

Yea, that is weak how some TKD schools only have class like once a week........there is a couple like that around here. How are you ever going to learn anything like that. In our BJJ class we train around 12hrs. a week at least.

[falcon3624]

Originally posted by Ghost


I never said shin conditioning is only Mauy Thai
I belive i have witnessed some of the most powerful TKD and Mauyt Thai kicks it is my opinion that the MT kicks are more pwerful and I tell you one thing The TKD guys sure slow down after a few shin blocks.


Maybe we should have a poll on it and see which way popular opinion goes.

Dont give me any crap about mechanics ive done it at degree level and the thai kicks have better mechanics, so sod off.

How bout I cast the first vote...Thai kicks kill TKD kicks.

Let's start a poll for real.....I wanna see this.

[Ghost]

agreed.