MMA is Not Self Defense!

[DickHardman]

I feel anything from MMA that would be good for Self Defense was originally made for defense and came from an SD art. But if you train for ring rules your reactions will be ingrained for ring rules. You don't have time to think in an SD situation normally thats what makes it SD.

[kingoftheforest]

Open mouth insert foot Obama style.

Don't hand me the stick next time guys.

Because this thread itself isn't that very same thing on this forum

[TTEscrima]

That's pretty much what Frank shamrock said to Cung Le.

[Tom Yum]

Who the **** drinks water?

Other than the entire armed services? Those canteens or camelbacks are usually filled with good ole H20.

[Ghost]

Yeah looks more like they were filming the next Mortal Kombat and less like Tai Chi.


But lets not high jack this thread with Tai Chi lets discuss more why the turtle defense is not good to use in a street fight against 4 people with bottles and chains.

I feel anything from MMA that would be good for Self Defense was originally made for defense and came from an SD art. But if you train for ring rules your reactions will be ingrained for ring rules. You don't have time to think in an SD situation normally thats what makes it SD.

Discuss.

ring fights are harder than street fights 9/10

[Guest]

But if you train for ring rules your reactions will be ingrained for ring rules.

Good, because the ring rules I have always been taught are to beat the living shit out of the guy.

That seems to work pretty well outside the ring too.

[ShawnJKD]

...but make sure to avoid the eyes and groin, not use small joint manipulation to break a grip, not to strike the back of the head - then depending on your rule set there might be no knees when your opponent is down, no upkicks to the face...and you train to release at the tap. Hmmm, well actually that is unfair as many guys these days only release when directed by the ref not the tap.

So saying the ring rules you've been taught are to "beat the living shit out of the guy" is a little misleading.

That all being said I would prefer not to mess with a pro-MMA fighter that is angry with me.

[Guest]

...but make sure to avoid the eyes and groin, not use small joint manipulation to break a grip, not to strike the back of the head - then depending on your rule set there might be no knees when your opponent is down, no upkicks to the face...and you train to release at the tap. Hmmm, well actually that is unfair as many guys these days only release when directed by the ref not the tap.

So saying the ring rules you've been taught are to "beat the living shit out of the guy" is a little misleading.

That all being said I would prefer not to mess with a pro-MMA fighter that is angry with me.

Come on Shawn, you're a smart guy, I didn't expect the old "rules" excuses from you.

For every "lethal" technique that you list, which we are not allowed to use in the ring, I will list you ten straight back that we can use, and will knock you on your arse.

The strength of people inside combat athletics is that they focus 100% on what they can do, the weakness of those outside the ring is that they hide behind what they can't do.

And I don't know who you have been in the ring with, but where I train there is nothing misleading about my statement at all, but its not my place to convince you of that.

[ShawnJKD]

I don't claim the banned techniques are lethal, or that MMA trained fighters are not dangerous fighters - nor that a quick poke to the eye is going to stop them (though examples exist in the MMA context). I'm just responding to the topic idea that MMA is not self defense. To pretend a kick to the groin has no meaning makes no sense in a self defense setting.

MMA has holes in its game that don't exist inside the ring, but do outside the ring. MMA is always one on one, with both fighters primed for the fight. Rarely do attackers square off with their targets. The clothes worn are minimal, to allow maximum movement and not allow grabs (since the old Gracie days have vanished along with the gi). I have personally ended a self defense situation with a collar choke, something not practiced in MMA - does that invalidate what I've done? (Also stupidly ended a confrontation by kicking a beer bottle out of a guy's hand - stupid on my part for doing it, stupid on his part for being impressed, but this was at a time when the martial arts still had some mystique and people were reluctant to face someone who could kick).

From the MMA movement there are many things that should be adopted into self-defense training - including the fitness aspect and training against a resisting opponent.

The martial arts go through cycles and fads. I know you've seen it. From Judo of the 50's, Karate of the 60's, Kung Fu in the 70's, Ninjas in the 80's, BJJ in the 90's, to MMA of today. There are some who suspect that FMA will be the next revolution - though it is hard to imagine with the UFC juggernaught chugging along.

In the early 90's we were told that BJJ was all you needed, then people remembered that just punching a guy in the face can win a fight and stand-up became important again.

I'm a JKD guy. I try to keep an open mind and adapt successful theory and technique where I find it. BJJ fighters dominated for awhile and we took from them. MMA trained guys are proving a more well rounded game is more important then dominance in just one area, so we continue to play with range. The MMA movement has proved that conditioning and fighting against resisting opponents is key to success, so we steal conditioning drills and sparring rule sets - BUT we should not ignore what exists outside the ring.

Hope you still think I'm a smart guy.

Shawn

[jubaji]

The strength of people inside combat athletics is that they focus 100% on what they can do, the weakness of those outside the ring is that they hide behind what they can't do..

Oh, that's a good 'un right there!

[ShawnJKD]

Also, to deny that we fight the way we train is a mistake. Lacing up the gloves and ignoring the groin kick means you are training to fight a certain way and to expect the groin kick or small join manipulation to just come out naturally and counter to what you trained makes no sense to me.

Think of the old knife training video footage of a security officer handing a knife back to his attacker because he automatically did it in class.

[Tant01]

That's good stuff...

[ShawnJKD]

I've seen the above videos. Don't see how they contradict what I've posted. You don't actually know that those guys are boxers or how they train. Its funny, those videos were actually used awhile ago as an argument against the idea that BJJ was the answer to every fight.

[Guest]

...and with that, I really hope we are done.

[Tant01]

Or you could LOCK it down and forget the thing...