MMA is Not Self Defense!

[jubaji]

The strength of people inside combat athletics is that they focus 100% on what they can do, the weakness of those outside the ring is that they hide behind what they can't do..

Oh, that's a good 'un right there!

[ShawnJKD]

Also, to deny that we fight the way we train is a mistake. Lacing up the gloves and ignoring the groin kick means you are training to fight a certain way and to expect the groin kick or small join manipulation to just come out naturally and counter to what you trained makes no sense to me.

Think of the old knife training video footage of a security officer handing a knife back to his attacker because he automatically did it in class.

[Tant01]

That's good stuff...

[ShawnJKD]

I've seen the above videos. Don't see how they contradict what I've posted. You don't actually know that those guys are boxers or how they train. Its funny, those videos were actually used awhile ago as an argument against the idea that BJJ was the answer to every fight.

[Guest]

...and with that, I really hope we are done.

[Tant01]

Or you could LOCK it down and forget the thing...

[ShawnJKD]

Excellent post and nothing I disagree with.

I stick by my belief that if you train under resistance then you will fight the way you train with whatever good and bad habits/technique that may include. I believe training with resistance, even with bad habits, is better than training without resistance.

I believe standup is the better way to go in a multi-attacker scenario, the "boxing" videos back that up, and I don't see how they apply to the MMA is not self-defense argument. I will mention though that Mike Tyson and many other boxers broke their hands when fighting in the street - hence the "Boxer's Fracture". So, there may be better ways to strike for self defense than those that a boxer uses. Doesn't mean that boxing won't work.

*shrug* Mike you make good points all round. I "tap" to you and admit I need more training all around before I'll ever have all the answers.

[Ghost]

imo the guys that come up with gloves rules argument havent sparred with a boxer.
When i came across to thai boxing from karate i thought i could fight. i thought looking at boxing and thai boxing that it would be fairly easy to counter.
This was 10 years ago or so now and i tell you i got bashed from one side of the ring to the other and back again.
Far from being able to land open hand techniques or even look for a kick to the groin i had so much coming my way and the thing was....
it was well coordinated , well balanced, tried and tested, with rhythm, speed and power. I think for an onlooker i looked like a punch bag.

The reality hits when you spar with someone good. I agree with the notion that its ulimately the person that makes the fighter but i 100% believe that some systems are superior to others in nearly every aspect but that there are some things to be learnt too.

no offense to some of the JKD guys on here but the average JKD wont keep up with an average boxer when it comes to hands for instance. on average id say even. which is saying something i think.

[Tant01]

Perhaps I was fortunate to be exposed to boxing early in my life...? I'm sure I've mentioned getting my face punched in? LOL

Sheeesh, if there was EVER a reason for footwork, an on GUARD "stance" or evasion skills, it's to avoid getting KO'd by a guy that knows how to throw a punch.

Seriously, if you can't make him miss you're in BIG trouble. Don't ask me how I know.

Keep your guard UP!

[Ghost]

No offense taken here, Ghost! That's actually one of the biggest reasons I took up boxing, and it's likely one of the reasons people like Guro Dan and Vunak so often recommend that others do likewise.

There's a lot of truth to what you posted, no matter how upset people want to get by it.

cool, i am aware that there are plenty of JKD delving deeper into boxing but i was speaking on averages but you obviously know what i mean.

[Ghost]

oh man that must have sucked for the cop. I know really very little about guns. am facinated by them and would love to learn really a lot about them but i saw on tv they were saying that it can take cops 5-7 shots sometimes to just stop someone sometimes hence the rise of guns with higher capacity mags.
any truth in that, sorry i know a little off topic just interested, a brief reply would do. thanks

[Tant01]

"You're gonna need more than that"

[ShawnJKD]

I don't think the cop training in boxing would have helped him. That's why they have weight classes. Yes, being bigger and stronger makes a huge difference.

Look, I can accept that MMA can be a viable approach to self defense training - I conceded the point.

I don't understand how you can use people like Dan Inosanto and Paul Vunak to back up the idea that sport combatives are the only way to learn to defend yourself. Guro Inosanto continues to teach Jun Fan and Kali and hopefully believes they are valid, I think in recent interviews he says he thinks himself as a Silat man more than anything else. We know the MMA crowd laughs at Silat. Vunak has his own take on things that contains material the MMA crowd claims don't work (pinching and biting for two).

I can't agree with you that gloves don't make a difference (even the MMA ones). I have boxed. I started out with boxing and judo in the way back when. I will state though that I have not competed as a boxer, just in the gym sparring. I have seen many boxers that have broken their hands and wrists in street fights. They can generate tremendous power in their punches, but without the glovs and wraps some of the damage comes back on them. Those who broke their hands though still managed to break more important things on their attackers and "won" the fight. If by using a different striking approach I can win and still keep my hands intact (and not walk around in a cast for 6 weeks) I'd rather use the different approach regardless of how effective boxing is, but I will continue to learn from boxers.

To say that you don't need to train groin shots or eye jabs because they are simple and will just happen makes as much sense as my saying the rear naked choke is simple and requires no training. They all ARE simple and direct (including the RNC) but require trained skill to set up and execute effectively. And yes I know that the argument will be that MMA sport combatives give you that training and as I said I concede the point. Comes the idea that the sport combative approach is a good supplement to other more "traditional" training and should be adopted by other systems that may not have it. A very JKD idea, no?

Given that I am not a pro athlete looking for a career in the ring it doesn't make sense for me to adopt the ring limitations (minor as they may be or may not be) along with the training ideas and work ethic that are certainly fuctional.

Now, if this is just exactly as predicted it would be in the way of response and the arguments are just spinning wheels for you, than please let me know and I'll stop.

[Ghost]

you could argue that while trying to "set up" an eye gouge as you put it , a boxer will hav hit you 3 times and have you concussed.
this is what i dont get. You cant be looking for trying to do certain things. the fight flows and you react. sure training an eye gouge may be relevant at some point of the fight.
I just think there are better ways to spend your time.
TBH at the point where an eye gouge is available its pretty obvious anyway.

The problem is when someone says that they can do better than a boxer because they have eye gouges and groin shots etc.
No offense but it smacks of lack of experience in sparring.

[ShawnJKD]

You think boxers and MMA fighters don't set things up? They just "react and the fight flows"?