BJJ or Judo?

[Guest]

Hey Pooper, where did I say that I did BJJ (I don't, though I'm sure that many of the techniques I am taught come from there), and where did I slag off Judo (where even more of the techniques I am taught come from)?

I was only having a laugh at your expense. You shouldn't take yourself so seriously, you'll get all Pooped out!

[MrPoopy]

Spanky, I'm going to post a couple clips of me rolling with my Judo instructor later on tonight if you're interested in dl them. It's me being thrown and armbared, me being thrown, and me getting the instructor down and armbarring him (but he escapes it).

I don't drink beer, but if you beat me I'll still buy one for you.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Fine, I'll let you my me a steak dinner!

And it's not IF, but WHEN I lay the smack down on your Mayberry Butt!

I'll check out the site.

[tigercats12]

note being rude

i think it is funny all the people talking about BJJ in here... it is obvious that most people only know BJJ through watching royce. BJJ has MANY throws as well as stand up fighting. you want to know about real BJJ go to rickson's school in LA and say there are know throws or stand up fighting, he will learn you real quick... there are many so called BJJ instructors that say it is all ground fighting but that is just what they are "socalled instructors"... don't forget BJJ actually came from a JUDO/ JIU JITSU champ maeda.

[ryanhall]

Whether BJJ has throws and standup is not really important. It's area of specialization is on the deck. Judo has groundwork, but it is not the equal of BJJ. The reverse is true for the throws. I've seen BJJ's striking, and it is not all that impressive. I would certainly rather spar Rickson in a boxing/kickboxing match than a grappling one.

[tigercats12]

either way

QUOTE]I would certainly rather spar Rickson in a boxing/kickboxing match than a grappling one.[/QUOTE]

either way he is just as effective. the reason you don't see so many throws in fights with BJJ guys is, it is much more simple to do a quick single or double leg takedown when fighting a striker.[

[Szczepankiewicz]

The true measure of an artist is to witness the artist in action. The true measure of an art is to witness the proliferation of the art.

So often you compare art, especially the martial variety, on the ability of the experts. However, what percentage of the training population fall into this category?

If you REALLY want to know how 'effective' the art, and the instructor, is, you have to look to the newbies.


If I was surrounded by a family of stud fighters and worked on this every single day of my life then I'd better be a stud.

Rickson, Royce et al certainly are studs. To speak proudly of these BJJ masters isn't really isn't a fair evaluation of the art, but more of the artists.

[tigercats12]

ok then

ok then compare the number of students of gracie or BJJ(the real guys) that have proven themselves in NHB fighting, to the number of judo players. who has won the most?independantly and against one another.... BJJ that's who.. i have nothing against judo but it is more of a sport than a real fighting style. also many of the before mentioned throws work great with a thick GI on but would not work in street clothes(ie shirts would tear etc). also Gracie JJ was designed for real fights modern judo was not. i always here BJJ is ALL ground, when in fact that is nowhere close to being right. they teach elbows, punches, knees, headbutts, kicks, throws, takedowns and ground fighting. they focus alot on ground fighting because that is where the majority of fights end up. they also teach multiple attacker techniques. but what most people go on is royce, who "prefers" ground work.
not to mention judo comes from JJ.
don't getme wrong, there are some judo guys out there that could smear most people(including BJJ guys) all over the ground, but as an art BJJ is much more well rounded than judo for a real fight. but that is just MY opinion.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Not trying to be an ass, but it woud seem that your argument is a cut and paste from the propoganda machine.


Of all the judoka I have trained with and spoken to, not one has broached the topic of the 'street effectiveness of judo'.

As stated by my esteemed colleague in the very beginning of this thread, neither system is a good system of self-defense.

Both systems are great for sport training.


If you HAVE to have system of good self defense, take tai chi, it will teach you to relax, avoid trouble (two more fundamental properties of any good self defense system), and will not instill you with a false sense of superiority.

[Guest]

Re: either way

Originally posted by tigercats12
QUOTE]I would certainly rather spar Rickson in a boxing/kickboxing match than a grappling one.

either way he is just as effective. .[ [/QUOTE]




No he isn't.

[Grape_Ape]

One of my Judo instructors is fond of saying that the person who gets tired first is the one who loses. I think that applies pretty well here. Royce Gracie is a very good fighter, but it has an awful lot to do with conditioning. When you get to a certain point style goes out the door.

[Guest]

Who was it that said "conditioning is the best hold down of all".

I can't remember.

[Szczepankiewicz]

It was me of course.

I say lot's of wise things. You'd be well advised to start taking notes, Bri.

[tigercats12]

hmmm

i guess you are on the other side of the machine in thinking BJJ is not a good self defense system. that is the whole point of BJJ. i don't know if you know much about brazil but STREET fights are a part of life and very very common. that is what BJJ came out of. not simply a ring but the street. so yes it is and would be a good self defense system. most people confuse what they see in pride and ufc as all that BJJ is. they also infuse royce with BJJ, but that con't be done either. YES he does BJJ but he uses the moves he likes. not all the moves from the art. like i said before go to ricksons school and see what you are taught, you will be very surprised if you think it is ALL ground work.

and to Bri Thai, i know he would not be as effective in a true muay thai match, what i am stating is he is just as effective standing as he is on the ground. he has won many fights through striking both standing and on the ground. i agree in a MT match with MT rules he would have his ass handed to him. but as far as NHB fights i don't think a MT fighter could take him.

back to Szczepankiewicz, i have no false sense of superiority. i think BJJ is one of if not the most complete systems out there BUT i don't think ANY system can truly stand alone.

[Szczepankiewicz]

BJJ is an awesome fighting art. If I'm gonna go out and pick one on one fights with people, then I'd love to be proficient in BJJ. I am a huge fan of the art and study it as often as possible.

Therein lies the rub. Fighting is not self-defense. Self-defense is not fighting.


BJJ was developed in Brazil so people could and would fight each other. If you want to say that BJJ is one of the strongest fighting arts in the world, you'd have my full support.

The difference between the two isn't so much based in physical manifestations but psychologically.

You can take a lot of the BJJ techniques and apply them to self-defense situations. I have on many occasions argued for grappling (i.e. BJJ) that can be used in self-defense situations.


Competition, whether it be MMA, sub grappling, or straight up Judo is not self defense and proves nothing as to how effective a sport art is in self defense.

back to Szczepankiewicz, i have no false sense of superiority. i think BJJ is one of if not the most complete systems out there BUT i don't think ANY system can truly stand alone.

Those are wise words. It is good that you have a strong foundation to build on. Once you realize the key differences between martial arts, fighting arts, and self defense then you'll really be getting somewhere.