Everyone is wearing Thai trunks.

[cowpaste]

Eh, I think "tang" is just as good as "taeng." :P It's never straightfoward to spell Thai words with English letters.

Yes, "Kaow" means knee, but unlike English, it's more of a noun rather than a noun/verb. A few ways to say "throw a knee strike" in Thai are "tang kaow" (stab knee) and "thee kaow" (hit knee). It's common for trainers to shorten the command and say just "thee!"

Anyway, arguing/being perfectly correct about the language can become silly. I just find it humorous that Ajan Chai (he's Thai right?) requires that his students call out the name of the strike. I mean...wouldn't it be equivalent to saying "thae" with each kick and "thoy" with each punch?

[Python]

Cowpaste,

Taeng (i spelled it wrong in the last post) translates to "stab" or "pierce". Kow is the proper word for knee. So if an instructor says Tang to get his students to knee, that is his choice I guess, but not the proper translation. Ajarn Chai (TBA) requires the students to say "Tang" with each knee, so I require it of my students as well, so they are prepared when attending seminars with Ajarn Chai.

[cowpaste]

If they do not bow when appropriate, they have push-ups, and if they do not say "TANG" on the knees, they have push-ups.

What the heck? "Tang" is a command from the instructor telling the student to knee. Why should the student have to say it?

[Khun Kao]

My understanding of going over or under the ropes has always been that you should go OVER the ropes. Allowing something to pass over your head is considered bad luck. That is why in Thai culture its practically insulting to touch someones head. For instance, if you were to tussle a kids hair, that can actually be considered a disrespectful act. You most DEFINATELY should go over the ropes if you are wearing a Mongkon, though.

Perhaps the issue is the way you "hopped" over the ropes rather than climb over them? Or perhaps Ajarn Chai believes that if you do not wear a Mongkon, you should not go over the top rope? Hard to say, you'd have to ask him or ask someone who knows him.

As far as the stomping in various Ram Muay's, it is my understanding that it isn't so much that it's 'disrespectful', per se... its an act of aggression, and there are many Thai's who are not a big fan of this style of Ram Muay.

My coach, Ajarn Kumron, was not a big fan of outright displays of aggression either. For instance, even though he has great respect for Bunkerd Famphini, he does not actually like the way Bunkerd fights and discouraged us from imitating it. Bunkerd often acts quite aggressive with his opponents in the ring.

[Garland]

What like dealing drugs? What are you suggesting? That they work a SEPERATE job to pay the bills of the other job? Ridiculous.

I tested for my shorts with a TBA academy. My inside right leg was black from mid calf to mid thigh. I used the term silly to refelct how much importance those TBA members put on that test and their feelings that everyone should follow their rules.

Please don't say "IF" they were TBA. I'm not a liar.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand.

In the TBA school I went to, I was encouraged to wear thai style trunks to work out in...my instructor was a bit peeved, but not too much, and not enough to say anything, when I wore trunks from another school I was also training at. This is VERY understandable however...my excuse is that the other trunks were in the wash.

At the school I went to, we tested for Student Level I and II, and if you wanted to be a Khru...you'd have to test with Adjarn present, under his stipulations. I did a Student Level I test without Adjarn, and my Khru's still took the opportunity to beat my ass. I didn't have to pay them anymore than usual, they wanted us to test...but I did pay for it in sweat, and the beating I took from the pad holders (Brian Yamasaki held for the first round, and Khuen Khru Will Bernales held for the second...Brian was hard, but Will was brutal. My first fight had been easier then that.)

As for saying everyone should follow their rules...Adjarn personally told me I should train not only at the TBA school, but should do a bit of training under another instructor (I guess he used to be a promoter for the TBA too) Sakasem. The only thing Adjarn told me that he didn't like about some of the other groups was the lack of cultural understanding (understanding the history, some language, and how to do thinks like the Rammuay) and respect that he tries to instill in his students that is lacking in many of the commercial schools.

I only got in trouble with Adjarn for doing one thing that he didn't see as appropriate that I learned from another school. I jumped over the ropes during a TBA seminar, and had to do pushups...Adjarn told me this was disrespectful...prior to this incident I had always thought that you should never let your head go under the ropes...I guess this is one differing ideology...also the rammuays I learned were different...the TBA was the basic rammuay, and the other I learned was the bow and arrow one that seems to be more of a northern style dance...which, again, Adjarn said he didn't personally like because it is a bit disrespectful (the stomp is supposed to mean something bad)....but didn't tell me I couldn't do...just implied I shouldn't do it if I was fighting under the TBA banner.

Adjarn Chai is all about respect...unless you're out eating with him and you leave your food within his reach...then you become fair game. And should probably ask for a new glass of water as well, because he probably rubbed some sort of poisonous hot sauce or chili over the rim.
Great sense of humor...Adjarn is very cool.

[Damian Mavis]

What like dealing drugs? What are you suggesting? That they work a SEPERATE job to pay the bills of the other job? Ridiculous.

I tested for my shorts with a TBA academy. My inside right leg was black from mid calf to mid thigh. I used the term silly to refelct how much importance those TBA members put on that test and their feelings that everyone should follow their rules.

Please don't say "IF" they were TBA. I'm not a liar.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand.

[47MartialMan]

So if you have a cost of overhead, dont have enough paying students, funding has to come from additional surces.

[Python]

Python, that is what is called a performance test... Both people are being evaluated, one for Apprentice Certification, or what most call the Basic Thai Boxing Certificate; one for future certification, either Associate or Full. The basic testee is defending himself. The advanced testee is showing he can attack weaknesses, strengths, and the ability to listen to his corner (Ajarn Chai). The numbers are to ensure continuity of action, somewhat similar to what fighters have to do in the ring in Thailand, where I believe they must make an offensive move approximately every 1 1/2 to 2 seconds, or face admonishment by the referee.

Ahh..my apologies, I stand corrected. I guess I never looked at it like "both" were being evaluated. Hmm..it makes sense now (takes me a while, maybe punch drunk?) lol. Thanks for the insight!

[chalambok]

Python, that is what is called a performance test... Both people are being evaluated, one for Apprentice Certification, or what most call the Basic Thai Boxing Certificate; one for future certification, either Associate or Full. The basic testee is defending himself. The advanced testee is showing he can attack weaknesses, strengths, and the ability to listen to his corner (Ajarn Chai). The numbers are to ensure continuity of action, somewhat similar to what fighters have to do in the ring in Thailand, where I believe they must make an offensive move approximately every 1 1/2 to 2 seconds, or face admonishment by the referee.

[Python]

If a student expresses the desire to become an instructor within the TBA, he must demonstrate a certain loyalty to the art (3 years of muay Thai training), a basic executable form (shown by doing a number of techniques in front of either Ajarn Chai or Ajarn Dan) and a 2 round performance test (where he must show he can defend himself from basic attacks using muay Thai).

Actually this is not totally accurate, atleast not with today's guidelines:

the 2-round test is as such....a feeder holds Thai pads and belly pad (usually) and the hitter(testee) must throw 65 roundkicks and 35 knees (or is it 70 and 40, i can't remember) in 3 minutes with the feeder fighting back at the pace dictated by Ajarn Chai. One minute rest and a fresh feeder steps in for round two. The testee must do the same in this round. It is a test of heart and conditioning, point blank! The feeders (or pad holders) are kicking the crap out of the testee's legs and punching with the end of the thai pads which can hurt if you are caught off guard. This test, while it may sound easy in writing....is no joke!! Many do not pass the first time and are required to re-take that portion in 6 months if they wish to be a Khuen Khru within the TBA, in fact meny have been knocked out during their tests in the past. My legs were all beat to heck and were sore for several days.

[Python]

I see nothing wrong with the TBA way of testing for shorts, but from personal experience I find their students extremely foolish in their attitude that the rest of the world should follow their rules and regulations. Being in Thailand and listening to TBA members tell other people at Thai muay thai camps that they have no right to and shouldnt be wearing muay thai shorts since they didnt do a silly little test back home across the ocean was more than I could bear.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

Damian,

I agree with Chalambok, "IF" these were indeed TBA members, they were acting solely on their own and do NOT represent the rest of us. Although I DID test for short and had my students testing for shorts, I know of several TBA instructors who do not require their students to test for shorts. BUT, the test, where and when administered, is by no means "silly", that I can assure you, atleast not in my camp.

[Python]

White Tiger,

Below is what I use for my Student Level One curriculum. As Chalambok said, the T.B.A. does not require we do this, but each Khuen Khru pretty much sets his/her own curriculum within their school/club/gym. The consistent testing requirements are the ones for Khuen Khru (or apprentice) level under Ajarn Chai within the guidelines set forth by the T.B.A.

Below is the outline of the requirements for wearing Thai shorts within my program (but as I said before, I no longer require the test to wear shorts, but I still administer the test for the level one achievement). This is not a whole lot of material, but I make sure the body mechanics for each technique or combination is correct. I place a big emphasis on Discipline and Respect as well. The student cannot do the technique until they are given the command "go"...if they do, they have push-ups. If they do not bow when appropriate, they have push-ups, and if they do not say "TANG" on the knees, they have push-ups. Again, it is about being focused and disciplined. The final round is the hardest. One 3-minute round does not seem like alot to you and I or most of us on this thread, but to a new student (who probably is not in the best of shape to begin with) it can be very demanding. During the round they execute whatever I command (ex: Round kick, Roundkick, 10 punches-4 skip knees-4 kicks..repeat), while I am kicking back and hitting back. Get the idea? It gets very intense, much more so than any round of actual fighting in the ring.

This is just Student Level One...the next step is Student Level Two...Level One instructor, and Level Two instructor (these are not Khuen Khru levels yet, they are in preparation for testing under Ajarn Chai).



Level One Student

1. Boxing:
Jab, Cross, Hook, Upper cut, Overhand
Defenses:
Cover, Slip, Parry, Evade, Bob-N-Weave

2. Elbows:
Down, Snap, Combo

3. Knees:
Regular Straight Knee - Long
Regular Straight Knee - Short
Skip Knee 1
Skip Knee 2

4. Kicks:
Round Kick Left & Right
Teep Left & Right
Defenses:
Round Kick Cover One
Round Kick Cover Two
Round Kick Cover Three
Base Up
Catch
Teep Scoop One (Outside)
Teep Scoop Two (Outside)
Teep Scoop Three (Inside)
Teep Scoop Four (Inside)

5. Combos:
Bob N Weave
4 Count (Right to Left, Left to Right, Same Side Right, Same Side Left)
Jab-Cross-Hook, Right Knee, Right Kick
Cross-Hook-Cross, Left Knee, Left Kick
Jab-Cross, Right Knee, Hook

6. Shadow Box

7. Thai Pad Round
1-3 Minute Round

[sportmuaythai]

The Thai Boxing Association of the United States does NOT require students to have short pants. Never has. Damian Mavis, I don't know where you are coming from, and if any TBA member is claiming you or anyone else who is not a member of the TBA should follow our rules, they are expressing solely their own opinion, and nothing more. .

Very well said. I may have been loud, but in the end, what any one or body does is up to him or her self.

[WhiteTiger]

...

But what is the TBA standard rules then?.

[chalambok]

Get Your Facts Straight Please

The Thai Boxing Association of the United States does NOT require students to have short pants. Never has. Damian Mavis, I don't know where you are coming from, and if any TBA member is claiming you or anyone else who is not a member of the TBA should follow our rules, they are expressing solely their own opinion, and nothing more. As far as the 'silly little test' goes, more than one professional fighter from Thailand has offered to pay for their certification rather than take it, so maybe it is not so silly to them. Like you said, a gym with 4 or 5 fighters will not support itself. Most successful schools in the US will have a large student base to support the relatively small fighter group. Their grading requirements are set up by them, and not by the TBA. If a student expresses the desire to become an instructor within the TBA, he must demonstrate a certain loyalty to the art (3 years of muay Thai training), a basic executable form (shown by doing a number of techniques in front of either Ajarn Chai or Ajarn Dan) and a 2 round performance test (where he must show he can defend himself from basic attacks using muay Thai).