Well look at it this way, TKD is all kicks and barely any hand work, MT is alot of boxing and alot of kicks, but only effective hard stuff, no fancy stuff...the TKD guy has to be flexible, the muay thai CAN be as well but it isn't 100% required to be decent but a good amount are anyways. And on the same note a TKD guy could learn some boxing as well, but isn't as conditioned to it since he doesn't use it in the sport as often...so obviously muay thai teaches to use your body more then TKD and how to be effective in more situations... Im sure its good to a have a TKD backround for Muay thai because it teaches you to kick really good and with a few adjustments to the roundhouse and ranging for the shin style strike, but thats about all it teaches you in terms of fighting...
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Originally posted by ThaiboxinggearThe way a roundkick is thrown in TKD is much different than the way a roundkick is thrown in Muay Thai. It can take time to break habits learned from TKD and while not necessarily "bad" habits, throwing a snap roundkick usually has no place in a Muay Thai ring.
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Are you saying that because of your TKD you have an advantage over Muay Thai fighters or in movies or on the street or how? I've never been a big fan of TKD and anytime I fought against them or I saw other kickboxers / Muay Thai fighters go against them, they always got smacked around good. This isn't to say that TKD guys can't ever beat Muay Thai guys, it all depends on the level of fighter. I would say that if you think you have a distinct advantage in the ring over guys here in Thailand, why are you not fighting them at a high level then? If you mean for self defense or on film, I would agree with you.
BTW - I just came back from Burma and will be going back in a few weeks. What a wild, odd, unique, frontier sort of place. Awesome and while I didn't get to see any Burmese boxing as I would have liked, after the Tiangyi festival there should be shows again and it should then be possible. One of the fighters I'm looking for and will eventually find is Wan Chai who is the Burmese champion and who fought in the last King's B-day.
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Man I wish I had time to travel and go places like Burma... so close yet so far away!
I'm trying to understand your point of view... but I'm thinking the problem is you don't understand mine. I have been training Muay Thai for 3 years, I am NOT a TKD guy that goes against Muay Thai guys. I do not go in the ring and start switching and bouncing around with my hands down. (Besides I come from traditional TKD that boxes to the head unlike olympic style.) I'm a Muay Thai guy that has TKD expertise to add to his arsenal. Just like hundreds of other fighters, some of them world class. Peter Aerts from K1 and Mike Miles in Canada are just a couple of fighter names off the top of my head. You probably aren't aware how many fighters actually come from TKD, nobody calls them TKD guys anymore haha. And I dont mean a year of TKD, I mean expertise in TKD as their background.
You keep suggesting I go against high level fighters. Wouldn't it be wise to build up my record starting small like a normal fighter would? Why on earth would you suggest I jump in against champions? Not the way it's done for any fighter, why me? I still have a ways to go in regards to the Muay Thai game before I'll be fighting anyone substantial haha. If I keep busy like I am lately I don't know how I'm going to do that... I'm opening 3 TKD branches in 2 weeks, I don't even have time to look into movies right now but I'm hoping that will change once the business is settled. Opening is the hard part.
I said I have an advantage, I meant over an equally skilled oppponent who only has straight Muay Thai, not all muay thai fighters around the world haha. Why do you keep acting like I'm some arrogant plick? heh. I know all martial artists want to beleive that what they know is ALL they need to know to satisfy their ego's but come on.... when do we get over our egos and become open minded? Doesn't having expertise in a few different weapons that come from angles of attack muay thai fighters don't usually learn to defend from make any sense to you as giving an advantage? Seems like common sense to me. I love martial arts and want to learn everything, I study everything I can get my hands on... I don't understand people that don't feel the same way I do.
Every time I have sparred fighters, some champions, I have always nailed them with turning side kick, works almost every time if I time it. My fight last year ended with me putting one of those up inside my opponents rib cage. Without TKD behind my Muay Thai game I don't know that I would have won my fight. Understand again, I beleive in order to win at Muay Thai you have to be good at Muay Thai, if you have anything else under your belt then that is just a bonus.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
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Man I wish I had time to travel and go places like Burma... so close yet so far away!
I'm trying to understand your point of view... but I'm thinking the problem is you don't understand mine. I have been training Muay Thai for 3 years, I am NOT a TKD guy that goes against Muay Thai guys. I do not go in the ring and start switching and bouncing around with my hands down. (Besides I come from traditional TKD that boxes to the head unlike olympic style.) I'm a Muay Thai guy that has TKD expertise to add to his arsenal. Just like hundreds of other fighters, some of them world class. Peter Aerts from K1 and Mike Miles in Canada are just a couple of fighter names off the top of my head. You probably aren't aware how many fighters actually come from TKD, nobody calls them TKD guys anymore haha. And I dont mean a year of TKD, I mean expertise in TKD as their background.
Listen, I boxed for 5 years, I trained for a few months in TKD, I got a brown belt in Karate, a black belt in Chinese Gung Fu and ended up training strictly in Muay Thai. The reason? The other arts gave me my start but in the end, I thought Muay Thai was a more practical application for fighting and I liked knocking guys out. My hands were always better than my feet which is probably why I liked to box and still do to this day. Now though, with my body racked with pain, I am actually contemplating Tai Chi and simply hitting the bags. My body can no longer take the strain and punishment that Muay Thai asks of it. So, while I wouldn't say that "TKD guys" can't fight, Muay Thai is geared specifically "TO FIGHT."
You keep suggesting I go against high level fighters. Wouldn't it be wise to build up my record starting small like a normal fighter would? Why on earth would you suggest I jump in against champions? Not the way it's done for any fighter, why me? I still have a ways to go in regards to the Muay Thai game before I'll be fighting anyone substantial haha. If I keep busy like I am lately I don't know how I'm going to do that... I'm opening 3 TKD branches in 2 weeks, I don't even have time to look into movies right now but I'm hoping that will change once the business is settled. Opening is the hard part.
I know all martial artists want to beleive that what they know is ALL they need to know to satisfy their ego's but come on.... when do we get over our egos and become open minded? Doesn't having expertise in a few different weapons that come from angles of attack muay thai fighters don't usually learn to defend from make any sense to you as giving an advantage? Seems like common sense to me. I love martial arts and want to learn everything, I study everything I can get my hands on... I don't understand people that don't feel the same way I do.
Every time I have sparred fighters, some champions, I have always nailed them with turning side kick, works almost every time if I time it. My fight last year ended with me putting one of those up inside my opponents rib cage. Without TKD behind my Muay Thai game I don't know that I would have won my fight. Understand again, I beleive in order to win at Muay Thai you have to be good at Muay Thai, if you have anything else under your belt then that is just a bonus.
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No no I do get your drift and totally agree. People going into another format only playing by the rules they know and are comfortable with are fools and will most likely lose. Hence arrogant Kung Fu/TKD/Karate guys getting smoked in the early UFC's. Now everyone knows and trains striking (boxing/muay thai) and submission grappling of some sort, but they also are learning the evolved art of MMA and it's strategies outside the afore mentioned disciplines. Same with Muay Thai, kickboxers, karate, kungfu and TKD guys that go against Muay Thai without mastering the Muay Thai game are dumb as poop. The same can be said the other way around though. Muay Thai guys going to olympic style TKD competitions without mastering the TKD game lose. But recently the winner of a huge olympic style TKD tournament in Bangkok was an ex muay thai champion, but he won by doing really good TKD, I'm sure his expertise in Muay Thai gave him a distinct advantage, but he learned the TKD game in and out.
I am an expert kicker and I dominate in the kicking range usually... until I run out of steam! haha I bet you felt the same about your boxing, you probably felt like you had an advantage over other fighters that didn't focus on their hands skill to the extent you did. I know a guy here that used to fight, David (forget his last name) and he was cleaning up moving up the ranks very fast because he knocked everyone out with heavy punches and superior boxing. They printed a funny comic in a Thai newspaper showing him waiting in his corner with a huge hammer behind his back to emphasize what it was like getting hit by him heh. Maybe you know who I'm talking about, he was fairly famous for a bit, now he's doing movies with my friends.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
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Registered User
- Feb 2003
- 2093
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The law of tyranny:
1. Any power that can be abused will be abused
2. Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it.
3. If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail.
Welcome to the Socialist States of Amerika . Coming soon Jan 20th 2009!
Originally posted by ThaiboxinggearAre you saying that because of your TKD you have an advantage over Muay Thai fighters or in movies or on the street or how? I've never been a big fan of TKD and anytime I fought against them or I saw other kickboxers / Muay Thai fighters go against them, they always got smacked around good. This isn't to say that TKD guys can't ever beat Muay Thai guys, it all depends on the level of fighter. I would say that if you think you have a distinct advantage in the ring over guys here in Thailand, why are you not fighting them at a high level then? If you mean for self defense or on film, I would agree with you.
BTW - I just came back from Burma and will be going back in a few weeks. What a wild, odd, unique, frontier sort of place. Awesome and while I didn't get to see any Burmese boxing as I would have liked, after the Tiangyi festival there should be shows again and it should then be possible. One of the fighters I'm looking for and will eventually find is Wan Chai who is the Burmese champion and who fought in the last King's B-day.You should post some pics.
Anyway my unsolisited thought on MT/TKD.
I agree TKD VS MT with two people with roughly the same weight and experience the MT guy has a definite advantage. I have seen two fights with MT vs. TKD and MT dominated both of those all though that in itself proves nothing, but by virtue of techniques, the type of training, and the toughness I believe the MT kicks ass.
However I believe that MT and TKD go together very well. In fact in some MT camps in Thailand they cross train their fighters in TKD. MT as it is practiced in Thailand is very much a kicking martial art. I have trained in Thailand and these guys do a lot of kicking. I have been to the stadiums and watched the fights and to the open-air bars where fights are ongoing everywhere, and there are fights where you see only a punch or two per round the rest are clinches and kicks and lots of them.
TKD is a kicking art and MT is a kicking art as practiced in Thailand (also a clinch art). So why not learn both?
We in the west tend to be more boxing oriented and we are actually better boxers than the Thais are. I know when I was in the ring my boxing skills helped a lot. My kicks usually landed on leg shields. When I would go in with hand combinations they would try to clinch and I love the clinch and am very comfortable there. Anyway I am getting of on a tangent.
Tbgear you have a point about habits. For a TKD guy to transition from TKD to MT can be tough. When I began MT I had been doing karate for several years, and I did find I had a hard time ridding myself of some of my karate habits. After 4 years in MT I still had habits left over from karate. Even though it drove my coaches crazy I never really felt they were much of a hindrance but they didn’t do much for me either. Now I am back doing karate I fight like MT because it’s far better. When we spar the karate guys don’t know what to do with my boxing attacks, leg kicks, and clinches. It’s fun to see the frustration in their faces.
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Registered User
- Feb 2003
- 2093
-
The law of tyranny:
1. Any power that can be abused will be abused
2. Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it.
3. If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail.
Welcome to the Socialist States of Amerika . Coming soon Jan 20th 2009!
Originally posted by Damian MavisYa I agree, 2 equal opponents, Muay Thai will beat TKD. Muay Thai simply has more weapons and has angles of attack that straight TKD has no defence for.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
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In 1V1 combat MT would probably have an advantage, because its an all around formidable striking system. I find TKD kicking skills are superior but that just doesn't cut it in a MMA bout, the use of hand strikes are usually neglected in TKD dojangs. I agree that TKD is a good art to learn on the side, especially if you're looking to improve your foot strikes.
( P.S. As I said before a MT would have an advantage in the fight with it's all around striking basis, but please don't judge this from that stupid movie with the TKD and MT fighting in Finland. Why you may ask? because they both sucked as* as fighters. It almost had me in tears.)
Sincerly,
Andrew Velocci
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This thread is so gay. All comparisons between arts should be rephrased as:
"If a fighter in artX and a fighter in artY were both told that they would fight in a duel-to-the-death in 1 year, who do you think would win?"
So you say this is not fair and want to ask about if they fought to the death NOW.
Well duh OBVIOUSLY some weapons martial art would win any deathmatch. Otherwise why the hell do we have armies, why don't we just have fighters going around to kick everyone's ass? Hell, some guy who did learned quick movements with fake weapons doing friggin' acrobatic wushu could probably pick up a real edged sword and annihilate the world's best grappler.
Now there are some traditional TKD kwoons who teach korean swordsmanship, so I think they would totally destroy any muay thai fighter.
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Well, this is a nice change of pace. Another (insert martial art) vs. (insert martial art) argument. I know my words are only going to get lost in the random insults and pointless arguments, but here i go. It's the artist, not the art. The spirit of the fighter is what matters most. Tae Kwon Do is no more useless than any other art, nor is it any more useful. Every technique has its place, regardless of what all the other superior martial artists say. (yes, I am being sarcastic.)
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