Anti-Grappling

[Uke]

I absolutely agree. Howd you like the event last night? Did you watch it?

I liked the first match. That was about it for me. Crazy Horse is a character in himself. If he got some real serious training but kept the attitude he'd be the next Rampage.

But I'll tell ya 7r14ngL3Ch0k3, you da man.

[Uke]

But what i think Jubaji is against, is that you have some martial artists that try to pretend they know their 'anti grappling' and thats enough, or something like that....

No one ever said that anti-grappling was enough to compete against a seasoned grappler in a grappling contest.

But jubaji, just like every other grappler who needs to feel included in fighting outside of the ring, would have you believe that the only way to fight a grappler is with grappling, which is stupidity!

You don't grapple a grappler or box a boxer, which is just another way of saying that you don't attack strength, you attack weakness. Grapplers tell you that the only way to fight a Gracie or any other ground wrestler is to become one, which would only lead to another submission wrestling match on the floor. If you're fighting someone who is clearly a far superior grappler than you are, that doesn't mean that you cannot defeat him. It simply means you have to know enough to keep him from closing the distance from kicking range, which can be effectively done without having to be a ground wrestling fighter. You'd have to study submissions to know how to reverse them, but you're not trying to get caught up on the floor. You're trying to get back up where you can have all your tools including awareness at your disposal.

Anti-grappling isn't geared to combat all grappling like tachiwaza joint manipulations and chokes, but is focused on what basically can be summed up as BJJ, which is 95% newaza.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

I absolutely agree. Howd you like the event last night? Did you watch it?

[Uke]

Oh and by the way in case you haven't been paying attention, you semantic based argument concerning anti-grappling is no longer valid. We've already established that anti-grappling has to do with ground wrestling or newaza. Takedown defense as well as techniques that enable you get back to your feet.

BJJ itself has many techniques that fall into this category by way of reversals and escapes. Strikes are used in anti-grappling from standing to supine positions. Chin na is used in anti-grappling. Poison hand strikes and pressure points are used in anti-grappling. Sprawls are used in anti-grappling.

When the Gracies made it popular to go straight to newaza range, didn't you think people would put time into avoiding and preventing that? You just don't like the label anti-grappling, and you've made that obvious.

The difference between being a grappler and being a striker with anti-grappling skills are simply this:

A grappler wants to go to the ground. And if he's taken to the ground, his only goal is to achieve being prostrate to grapple from a superior position.

A striker with anti-grappling isn't seeking to grapple. He is trying to avoid being taken down while dishing out damage. In the event that a man who intends to take the fight to the ground closes the distance, anti-grappling skills are simply those that defend against takedowns and throws. If the grappler manages to get the striker down, the striker's skill set is geared towards getting up and away from the ground, not to continue to lay and roll around with the man just because he's got the top position.

The importance of distinguishing anti-grappling from grappling is that if someone wishes to learn grappling or more specifically ground submission wrestling they shouldn't be mislead into thinking that the two are the same. BJJ and wrestling are much more complete arts and focus on going to the ground. Anti-grappling focuses on three things: The shoot, the takedown and the escape from the mount position quickly and by any means necessary.

There are a bunch of other styles using anti-grappling. You just chose to fixate your limited focus on comparing this discussion with Boztepe's effort. Cute angle but it got you no where.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Am I mistaken or was Shamrock just DQ'd for kneeing Gracie to the head while he himself was mounted?

I dont want to get involved with this thread....

What youre saying Anti grappling is, is basically like "sprawl and brawl", its the strategy of keeping yourself standing in a fight.

Is their anti grapping techniques? Sure, sprawling, eye gouging, striking to the face, neck, you get my point, anything to prevent you from going to the ground.

But what i think Jubaji is against, is that you have some martial artists that try to pretend they know their 'anti grappling' and thats enough, or something like that....

Aside from that...

Frank Glamrock kneed Renzo while on bottom in side mount. Not full mount, thats not possible. Those knees were deliberate, and to the side of the neck.
That was anti grappling right there. Except if the rules allowed for knees to the head on the ground, Renzo would have been kneeing the Frank dont you think.

[Uke]

Actually, since the term antigrappling was used and coined before TV was invented the answer would have to be a no.

But for the slower folk here who only believe what they see in the ring, I figured Shamrock's statement might shepard them towards reality. Sadly, some people here would rather have you believe that they belly-to-belly suplex men who attack with knives than have you believe that there are a group of techniques geared to prevent going to the ground and getting up off the ground.

Go figure!

I remember once upon a time when the UFC would have had you believe that ground grapplers were undefeatable and the only way to beat a ground grappler was to use ground grappling!

My how that school of thought has changed! Strikers have changed the tide without having to become grapplers. And even then most of what you'd use to get back on your feet on the street isn't allowed in NHB tournaments. Am I mistaken or was Shamrock just DQ'd for kneeing Gracie to the head while he himself was mounted?

A better question would be to ask those who doubt the the subject at hand what would work and wouldn't work? Those who are so opinionated are careful never to tread into the realm of actual discussuion of technique, but so quick to demonstrate opinion of what wouldn't work or couldn't exist.

[jubaji]

That's the way we've become, right?

Our lives have to be pain free and match some kind of fantasy dreamed up from drama t.v...

Sad to say...

[Tom Yum]

suckers like you will pay any price for a comfortable fantasy.

That's the way we've become, right?

Our lives have to be pain free and match some kind of fantasy dreamed up from drama t.v...

[jubaji]

you still don't get it...

Did anybody catch it when Frank Shamrock said that he focused on what he calls "anti-jujitsu" for his match against Renzo Gracie?

I guess somebody should have told him that it doesn't exist!

He's probably gonna be selling videos with the same name soon now and suckers like you will pay any price for a comfortable fantasy.

[Uke]

Did anybody catch it when Frank Shamrock said that he focused on what he calls "anti-jujitsu" for his match against Renzo Gracie?

I guess somebody should have told him that it doesn't exist!

[jubaji]

theory-boy strikes again

[BoarSpear]

What if the guy who got power bombed, decided to roll forward with Rampage's lift?

Both men would probably land on their head.

Thats actually similar to a counter from Mongolian wrestling but only the one attempting the powerbomb actually lands on his head, you just land on top of him.

[Tom Yum]

Oh no you didnt.

But yes, most people can do this:

What if the guy who got power bombed, decided to roll forward with Rampage's lift?

Both men would probably land on their head.

[DickHardman]

lol uke thinks he is as tough as rampage. what a tool.

[SamuraiGuy]

First off, I'm not shitting all over your accomplishments. Second, on the street you don't have to get the height that Rampage and Hughes got with their lift. Know this. If someone can just get you up waist high and then use a jujitsu face fall on a curb, a fire hydrant or down a flight of stairs its a wrap. And even if they aren't unconscious they won't be able to hold that submission.

Never said you were shitting on my accomplishments it was a pre-emptive statement that I dont care so I didnt want you to bother...

I realize on the street its different, but I still contend using Rampage as an example is a bit unrealistic, whether or not YOU personally (because you seem to call everyone else weak, frail, etc...) know everyone to be like Rampage, the majority of the population simply arent like him. While they might be able to lift someone up a few feet off the ground, not like rampage would, I realize concrete etc... and head collision could be an issue but yes,

I'm not for triangle chokes on the street, and I realize slams are effective I just didnt think the rampage comparison was valid. Anyway, carry on.