William Cheung's Traditional Wing Chun

The suspense is killing me,...

No your heart attitude is killing you, among other things......

And where is the video of YOU in a professional fight doing all the things right that you found fault with?


The suspense is killing me, I can't wait for the answer so I'll give it: There is none and there never will be. You sit on your ass looking at clips and pics and imagine things you cannot do and never will do. I'm sure with the power of your mighty remote you can find the 'flaws' in every professional athlete in every sport on the planet, all without ever peeling your fat LARPer ass off the Lazyboy. There's a difference between imagining things and doing things.

Wrong again. I had been talking to this man I posted videos of for a while in another forum. He was a brawler and I believe had the wrong attitude. Eventually I saw a video of him in this fight and if you had heard all the garbage talk, threatening and pride that came from him and then saw his video, you also would have commented. He had told me how he would never get into positions that I showed in my pictures etc. Yet when I watched that video I saw all sorts of positions he was in constantly in the fight that leave him open. So I showed him what I was reffeing to in the ciip. When I tried to discuss this with him, he made excusses and denied many things.

And how many times do I have to say that I do not enter such arenas. And that Kung Fu is not allowed in such arenas, or at least the combative survival Kung Fu that I am talking about. And I do not fight except for self defense and sparing with my students, or to help others. I am very set in this direction and moral aspect of my life. For me to change who I am and jump into a ring with a MMA fighter would be for me to throw off all I know about Kung Fu and morals and good character etc. I , am very troubled at the attitude of the MMA fights I see and the attitude of the men fighting in many cases. I don't seek to fight in a sport fighting MMA arena at all. I also have nothing to prove to myself. I do not fight against my fears by garbage talk, proud boasting and saying how I am going to smash another human beings face in etc etc etc . To me that kind of thing makes me sick and makes for a bad martial artist.

I am surprised that I don't find other instructors who agree with me in this area. I have met men in person who agree with me and about the moral aspect as well. But in forums I do not find that much.

Especially from men like you.

[jubaji]

And where is the video of YOU in a professional fight doing all the things right that you found fault with?


The suspense is killing me, I can't wait for the answer so I'll give it: There is none and there never will be. You sit on your ass looking at clips and pics and imagine things you cannot do and never will do. I'm sure with the power of your mighty remote you can find the 'flaws' in every professional athlete in every sport on the planet, all without ever peeling your fat LARPer ass off the Lazyboy. There's a difference between imagining things and doing things.

...KFM, shut up. Have you ever seen Cam fight? Not a snippet of one bad fight on Youtube. You're a fuckwit pure and simple.

Well, I posted this in the DL and the man who was called Cam McHargue (Lugaldamharda), who Cam admitted was him, was beaten easily by Kevin Glittemeier. Cam just crouched in a ball at the end of that fight and got pounded. I showed, from his fight where the openings were and if you watch the fight you will see clearly that Cam was not as good as he made himself out to be, even though he might like to think of himself as a pro. and the best thing that every happened to the fighting world and a man that can overcome all the kung fu in the world. At least thats how his talking appeared to me by his talk and attacks towards a Kung Fu teacher. It was very troubling to talk to such a man, as it is with you.

This is the fight that I posted of him. Are you just lying again?

YouTube - Kevin Gittemeier v Cam McHargue MMA

[Ben Grimm]

That's what I would have thought, that everything would have been passed onto his sons without fail. If Cheung's version of events are correct then, well it just make sense traditionally speaking. KFM, shut up. Have you ever seen Cam fight? Not a snippet of one bad fight on Youtube. You're a fuckwit pure and simple.

[Museumtech]

I'm not saying Cheung wasn't an able fighter. Nor am I saying that he can't fight now. All I'm saying is that I don't like his style of Wing Chun and that it looks very different than any other style of Wing Chun. Do you think that Yip Man would not have taught his own sons TWC as well? But apparently Cheung is the sole inheritor, this is what gets me worked up.

I'm cool with that Ben. The style is different. Many see a similarity with Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun. This linage has come from outside of the Leung Jan - Yip Man path. It is not inconceivable that a 'not taught publicly' version of Wing Chun taught initially to Leung Jan would look like the 'family only' wing chun of HFY. More of that some other time.

As to Yip Man's sons. It is generally acknowledged that GM Yip Man did his best teaching through out the 50s. His son's were taught mostly during the 60's. Why their father chose not to pass on the TWC style, we'll never know. But by the time they were ready, by many reports, he would have been too frail to do so.

It usual in Chinese and Japanese circles to pass the complete knowledge on to only a family member. Less often, but not uncommonly, the responsibility falls to someone else. Someone who is a very good fighter and can understand retain all of the knowledge.

The bottom line is that in 1999 The Ving Tsun Athletic Association held a world conference in Hong Kong. Grand Master Cheung was invited to give some demonstrations. He and his team were very well received and generated a lot of interest. This went a long way to healing a lot of the rifts. Unfortunately this was short lived. By the time a DVD of the event was made, all reference to TWC and all footage of the team were removed. It seems there was more to be gained by the VTAA by keeping the wounds open.

Unofficial footage from this event can be found here Wing Chun Kwoon - The Clips I particularly like the forms clip.

I was referring to what you said on DL. And how you told Cam that Boztepe's style could defeat an experienced MMA fighter such as himself. LARPer.

So you admit that you were mistaken in saying I contradicted myself. And By the way I do believe Boztepe could easily overcome Cam. That is in my opinion, and after watching Cams abilities on the You tube.

[Ben Grimm]

I was referring to what you said on DL. And how you told Cam that Boztepe's style could defeat an experienced MMA fighter such as himself. LARPer.

I'm not saying Cheung wasn't an able fighter. Nor am I saying that he can't fight now. All I'm saying is that I don't like his style of Wing Chun and that it looks very different than any other style of Wing Chun. Do you think that Yip Man would not have taught his own sons TWC as well? But apparently Cheung is the sole inheritor, this is what gets me worked up. TigerClaw shut the **** up. On DL you were talking about how great Boztepe is, and now you're contradicting yourself.

No, I am not contradicting myself, you are very weak in reasoning and debate, I did not say that Bozetepe was better or worse. I merely said, (if you read and were more careful before you even try to attack me) that you cannot write off a man based on one fight. I did not even comment on who was better or worse.

And yes I think Bozetepe, is a powerful martial artist, even though I do not like his character and attitude. I also still believe he could handle himself against many MMA fighters today. But that really doesn't matter anyway.

By the way Bozetepe has done a DVD on ground fighting and how to deal with grapplers , (something like that) . Although I have not sen it. That might be interesting to throw into the mix in here. A kung fu man who has answers against grapplers.

I have not seen the video, so I cannot comment on the content. But it may be interesting. I saw the ad for it in Inside Kung Fu magazine,.

[Ben Grimm]

I'm not saying Cheung wasn't an able fighter. Nor am I saying that he can't fight now. All I'm saying is that I don't like his style of Wing Chun and that it looks very different than any other style of Wing Chun. Do you think that Yip Man would not have taught his own sons TWC as well? But apparently Cheung is the sole inheritor, this is what gets me worked up. TigerClaw shut the **** up. On DL you were talking about how great Boztepe is, and now you're contradicting yourself.

[Museumtech]

Let's just say that I know some of Alfredo Del Brocco's students. I never trained with Cheung and nor do I want to.If he was so good, why did he get taken to the ground by Emin Boztepe? I know the footage was edited in part, but he was still put on the ground and tried to get out by headbutting Boztepe's elbow.

No-one is asking you to train with Sifu Cheung. Your criticisms were of him and not of some students of his students so I was asking if you have actually trained with him. You haven't. As to his ability as a fighter you refer to the Boztepe clip. Yes it was highly edited, but you have to ask yourself, if Boztepe was so good at Wing Chun, and he attacked William, how did he end up in a headlock (at the very start of the clip)?

There is no question about his Wing Chun fighting ability. In the 50's the majority of beimo fights were by Wong Shun Leung, Wong Kiu and William Cheung. In an article by WSL he mentions that Bruce Lee was always asking him if he (Lee) could defeat Cheung yet? WSLBL.

As to his ability as a teacher. In 1982 we sent four student over to Hong Kong for the World Invitation Kung Fu Championships. All four returned, relatively unharmed. Rick Spain and Joe Moahenghi brought back the Middle weight and Heavy weight titles respectively.

Let's just say that I know some of Alfredo Del Brocco's students. I never trained with Cheung and nor do I want to.If he was so good, why did he get taken to the ground by Emin Boztepe? I know the footage was edited in part, but he was still put on the ground and tried to get out by headbutting Boztepe's elbow.

I don't know if you should write off a man because of one fight.

Hey all, there is another Tiger Claw that is not me, just a note.

[Ben Grimm]

Let's just say that I know some of Alfredo Del Brocco's students. I never trained with Cheung and nor do I want to.If he was so good, why did he get taken to the ground by Emin Boztepe? I know the footage was edited in part, but he was still put on the ground and tried to get out by headbutting Boztepe's elbow.

[Museumtech]

I'm a Wing Chun stylist.

Hair or nails Ben?

Frankly speaking Cheung is crap. He started with all the claims after Yip Man passed away.

And explained that he had agreed not to teach TWC while GM Yip was still alive. Your point is?

His angles are wrong and a lot of his stuff is watered down Wing Chun these days.

His angles are different but still very right. Watered down? Can't say I've seen you training with him Ben, what do you base this revelation on (apart from, its cool and gives me street cred to slang off about William Cheung)?