William Cheung's Traditional Wing Chun

[aseepish]

Arrested Development

Clip with William Hung and his Hung Jury

http://youtube.com/watch?v=507tQFVKpsg

[SmallThought]

Hear hear...

Enough about William Cheung. Let's hear about William Hung..."She Bang! She Bang!"

Awsome! I couldn't agree more!

[Tom Yum]

Enough about William Cheung....




Let's hear about William Hung..."She Bang! She Bang!"

[SmallThought]

Undiscovered tribes in the Amazon knew you were going to say that!

I'm always amused when people try to use Bruce Lee to validate Wing Chun.

He's the guy who turned to other arts because of it's massive deficiencies......

Actually, I used Bruce Lee to validate the necessity to to train basics in any system. Yes he did turn from Wing Chun because of the deficiencies made obvious to him in the Modified system.

Who in this day and age goes to a martial arts school to beat someone up?......I have fought Cheung students (who apparently trained 22 years) and beat them to a pulp. .......

Errr... you, obviously.

But here's an idea - maybe the best Cheung students should put on their website open challenges to the Gracies or other good martial artists.......

Respectful martial artists (and those that take themselves and their art seriously) do not post open challenges on websites. Traditionally, a challenge should be issued formally through a personal introduction or a respectful request for a given date time and place. Cheung didn't actually issue an open challenge, he stated that he would accept any challenges from the contemporaries of his kwoon.

I know of one of Cheung's students who travelled extensively doing just that. He spent time observing different systems and fighting respectful challenge matches with their best fighters.

Here's an idea. If you are so confident in your ability to beat all others "to a pulp", why don't you spend some time travelling and challenging other fighters???

I'm really beginning to find these Wing Chun/Cheung bashing discussions tiresome.

Never the less, good luck with your training!

Peace out.

[Thai Bri]

Cheung has never said to people - if you don't agree, come to my school and fight me, and no-one would either.

Yes he has. That is what started it all.

back in the 80's he was all over the Martial Arts mags talking about "The Challenge!"

Oh yes! Only HE was taught "real" Wing Chun, and he was willing to prove it by taking on any and all challenges!

That is why Boztepe went in the first place.

[Red Rum]

As GM Cheung himself would say: just because you don't like someone, or think they're a fake, does not mean that their skill level is lowered. .

Er, if you think someone is a fake then yes I would say that their skill level is lowered.
But the argument hasn't really been on Cheung's personality but that the style of WC he teaches is rubbish. Every Cheung student I have gone up against has been cr*p

As GM Cheung himself would say: just
Everyone harps on about the Emin Botzep "challenge", but he never accepted the offer to fight any of Cheung's students. You hear plenty of people carrying on how much of a kung fu fraud Cheung is, but no-one issues a traditional challenge. None of Yip Man's other students will fight him at a neutral venue at a previously arranged time; as tradition dictates (tradition also dictates that at the age these guys now are, it should be their prime students who do the challenging: the best style/teacher will have the best student). I also haven't heard of anyone else in the Wing Chun world challenging any (let alone the best) of his direct students. What is this telling you?
.

Who in this day and age goes to a martial arts school to beat someone up?
The person you would be fighting would have the advantage of al the students/instructors in that school. Bosteppi was grabbed by several Cheung students when they realised that Cheung was losing badly

Cheung is an old man and wouldn't offer any kind of problem.
I know several wing chun guys (let alone MMA) who would destroy Cheung

Cheung has never said to people - if you don't agree, come to my school and fight me, and no-one would either. What is the point of beating Cheung up? Bosteppi certainly didn't earn much respect for going and doing the deed (although I personally applaud him).

I have fought Cheung students (who apparently trained 22 years) and beat them to a pulp. They could not handle grappling or long range fighting, which is sad.

But here's an idea - maybe the best Cheung students should put on their website open challenges to the Gracies or other good martial artists

[Thai Bri]

I'm always amused when people try to use Bruce Lee to validate Wing Chun.

He's the guy who turned to other arts because of it's massive deficiencies......

[SmallThought]

Misconception...

As GM Cheung himself would say: just because you don't like someone, or think they're a fake, does not mean that their skill level is lowered.

Everyone harps on about the Emin Botzep "challenge", but he never accepted the offer to fight any of Cheung's students. You hear plenty of people carrying on how much of a kung fu fraud Cheung is, but no-one issues a traditional challenge. None of Yip Man's other students will fight him at a neutral venue at a previously arranged time; as tradition dictates (tradition also dictates that at the age these guys now are, it should be their prime students who do the challenging: the best style/teacher will have the best student). I also haven't heard of anyone else in the Wing Chun world challenging any (let alone the best) of his direct students. What is this telling you?

Now, i'm not saying every word he speaks is true, and i'm not saying he's the best bloke in the world. I'm sure he has many traits that leave a considerable amount to be desired. However, that does not mean that the style of Wing Chun he teaches is not technically superior to others. It also does not mean that he doesn't (or considering he's now in his late 60's, didn't) have a superior ability to apply it.

Ever noticed you don't hear of anyone saying: "I studied Cheung style Wing Chun, but when i started the Modified System i saw how technically superior it was to Cheung Style!"
Rather, you tend to hear them say: "I studied modified Wing Chun for some time and i quite liked it, but it wasn't until i trained for a while in Cheung style that i realised the glaring deficiencies in the modified system".
Now don't get a bee in your bonnet! I'm not saying other systems of Wing Chun will not work well for some people, because i'm sure they have for many. Take Chan Wah Shun for instance.

What I am saying is: judge the system based on an in depth knowledge of it's techniques and applications, not on whether you take a shying to the person teaching it. Personally, I still believe that, all else being equal: ie. size, training time, fighting experience, fighting will, fitness, etc: a person training Cheungs Wing Chun will over come the person training the Modified System/s.

Red Rum, you say that Wing Chun moves are all the same from style to style. Maybe it's your shear size that has not made it necessary for you to realise that an inch or two in elbow position or angle of stance can be the difference between a technique collapsing or proving effective for the slighter person. You might say that makes it just too intricate to be effective, to which my reply would be: that all depends on how well and how correctly you training it. If you haven't trained to the point where your response to stimulus is automatic, then nothing will work for you in a truely pressured situation. That's why you train basics over and over and over and over and over and over...... because it is those basic responses that you need to come out automatically when all your environmental training fails and you end up in a fight. In a real pressure situation, we are LUCKY to remeber 40% of what we have learnt: add to that a pulse rate above 120bpm and your motor functions are affected as well, so your ability to accurately apply that 40% is dropped to about 80%; that leaves you with about 30% of what you thought you knew!!!

If near enough is good enough, basics are a boring waste of time and you just wanna learn the next move: are you really a martial artist or a wanna be tough guy??? Bruce Lee practiced each technique a thousand times before moving on to the next; he may or may not have been a martial genius, but he was EXTREMELY DEDICATED to training his basics. Bruce became the legend he is with about 1/5 of the Wing Chun system and some rudimentry training in other fighting styles because he knew the importance of TRAINING YOUR BASICS. As Sifu used to tell me: "people say practice makes perfect but that's not true; perfect practice makes perfect... and a lot of it!!!"

Enjoy your training.
Peace out.

[Red Rum]

It's....it's because I love you man.....
Sniff sniff

the enemy of my enemy is my friend....

[Thai Bri]

Red Rum jumps to my defence!

See how martial arts brings people together! ;-)

[Red Rum]

both you guys have no idea tameo you talk as if you know william cheung i seriously doubt it you act as if williams wing chun is the gospel its not in fact no martial art is.What he has done for wing chun has been a great thing.

Are you taking the mick? Cheung is one of the reasons wing chun is a laughing stock

the controversy and bickering not good in a comparision to many other wing chun so called masters william cheungs wing chun does look alot more effective..

What wing chun have you been watching? I severely hope that Cheung is not the most effective WC you've seen or else you are a poor poor martial artist

and if you compare both styles of wing chun well you will come to a conclusion period.Thai bri you trained a year in wc thats a joke a year in any martial art is nothing.

It's more than most people need. A year in wing chun is a make or break period. It's when people realise that they would do better in another martial art, or see the potential that wing chun had.

and i seriously doubt you were there most of the time seeing as you have been sitting on your computer most of your life posting babyish comments like i read 4;216 post come on mate do some training of some sort to get you away from the computer.The boztepe fight well you only believe what the eye sees and you never heard bruce lee say william cheung was a great fighter did you know him?Unfortunatly we only believe what we believe in so let your minds fabricate all they can i on the other hand will continue to train and push people like you further away.

Bruce Lee said Cheung was a great fighter - there are topics on the JKD site asking how good Bruce Lee was! So your source is not a great one.

If Cheung is so good, why did he never get involved in MMA or cage fights?

Thai Bri has tried wing chun and it didn't work for him, but at least he went to a kwoon and trained. phenom - have you ever trained anything else other than wing chun? I bet not

[Thai Bri]

By the way, if you're going to push people like me further and further away.....why respond to my messages on the net?

[Thai Bri]

This is as bad as Tameo. Full of contradictions and hero worship.

Cheungy was the one who took on all the other WC stylists and then, of course, lost. Badly.

And yes, I do believe what my eyes see. Don't you?

[phenom]

both you guys have no idea tameo you talk as if you know william cheung i seriously doubt it you act as if williams wing chun is the gospel its not in fact no martial art is.What he has done for wing chun has been a great thing the controversy and bickering not good in a comparision to many other wing chun so called masters william cheungs wing chun does look alot more effective.and if you compare both styles of wing chun well you will come to a conclusion period.Thai bri you trained a year in wc thats a joke a year in any martial art is nothing and i seriously doubt you were there most of the time seeing as you have been sitting on your computer most of your life posting babyish comments like i read 4;216 post come on mate do some training of some sort to get you away from the computer.The boztepe fight well you only believe what the eye sees and you never heard bruce lee say william cheung was a great fighter did you know him?Unfortunatly we only believe what we believe in so let your minds fabricate all they can i on the other hand will continue to train and push people like you further away.

[Thai Bri]

Im just givin' the ole queen the finger...both of 'em

That is his hobby, after all.

I just grease myself up and wait till he's finished. He doesn't last long.